£900 P4 Pc

[Karl|Neo]

Hi, just wanted to seek your expert opinions on my waiting to be bought rig, n e suggestions would be appreciated

P4 2.4C
PowerColour 128Mb 9800 Pro (I would get a hercules, but i can get this for £30 cheaper)
Chaintec Dragon Aluminium Case W/360W (Is Using the power supply from the case a gud idea?)
512Mb Twinmos 400 (Still not sure on this one, any better suggestions for around the 70 - 100 mark?))
Asus P4C800 Deluxe (Is this the best mobo short of a ABIT MAX 3?)
120Gb SATA HDD (Is SATA much better than IDE?)

After this ill have about £40 extra, what do you reckon i should buy/improve with it?

Thanks for having a neb,

Ne0|Karl

[Mallus]

Sounds good, but maybe get a 9800 non pro and flash it to a pro and use the money saved to get a CM 201 black widow?

[Karl|Neo]

hmmm, sounds a bit risky 2 me , i'd rather get a proper pro, n the upgrade ma case later wots the success rate on softmods, n are they eaxactly the same as pro's when done?

[Austin]

It's as simple as using Word. You load a program and tell it to set the RAM and core clocks higher, test to see if it works happily and then try a little higher. The 9800 is capable of getting VERY close to 9800PRO speeds every time, it isn't far off 9800PRO perf even when stock. It would be a bit like buying a 2.8C instead of your 2.4C, you plan to o/c, right? For the RAM you want 2 sticks for Dual Channel so either 2x256MB (my rec) or 2x512MB. TwinMOS is a great brand (esp with Winbond) but you should also consider others esp Adata. PC3200 (400mhz) is all you need if you stay stock or don't mind running FSB and RAM out of sync. Faster RAM like Adata's PC4000 (500mhz) allows you to keep the FSB and RAM synced for optimal perf when you o/c but you may find even that's limiting if your CPU o/c's well, still nicer to know the RAM won't hold you back.

Both mobos are top notch from what I hear but I'd side with the MAX3. With the rest of your spec being top notch I'd suggest getting a 160GB HD as they no longer offer bad price per GB. SATA is better than PATA but nothing huge, mostly lower CPU usage and smaller cables at the mo. I'm not an expert on cases at all, for the PSU 360W should be ebough if it's a decent brand (Antec, Enermax, ThermalTake, CTW, ToPower, S.Flower, Sparkle etc). You can always try the PSU and buy a better one later, I'd rec a 400W with a good brand as you want to protect your parts the best you can, maybe add a surge protected ganger (power sockets) too.

I assume you've factored things like monitor, DVD Writer, sound card and don't overlook things like DECENT speakers, keyboard, mouse and maybe printer, scanner, d.camera too!

[Knoxville]

A 9800 bios flash may give the higher speeds but isn't the 9800np missing 4 pixel pipelines?

[luke313]

AFAIK, the 9800 np is the 9800pro, just at lower clocks. The 9800SE is the one with half the pipelines.

[Grolschkid]

I read a review somewhere that the powercolor 9800 pro doesnt overclock at all, although the stock settings are slightly higher than normal.

[Austin]

Originally posted by luke313
AFAIK, the 9800 np is the 9800pro, just at lower clocks. The 9800SE is the one with half the pipelines.

Yup. 9800PRO should have slightly better RAM which in turn allows a slightly higher RAM o/c but I'd imagine the core's more limiting than the RAM anyway. So yes, 9800 is a slightly lower clocked 9800PRO while the 9800SE have half the pipes (yuck) placing them down where the 9600PRO/XT reside ... but with far less o/c'ability than the 9600.

9800XT . (0.15) 412/365 256bitDDR 8pipes 23.4GB/s 3.5Gp/s
9800PRO (0.15) 380/340 256bitDDR 8pipes 21.8GB/s 3.2Gp/s
9800 . . . (0.15) 325/310 256bitDDR 8pipes 19.8GB/s 2.6Gp/s
9800SE_1 (0.15) 325/250 128bitDDR 4pipes 8.0GB/s 1.3Gp/s (unofficial)
9800SE_2 (0.15) 380/340 256bitDDR 4pipes 21.8GB/s 1.6Gp/s (unofficial)

9600XT . (0.13) 500/300 128bitDDR 4pipes 9.6GB/s 2.0Gp/s (word is the RAM will be faster on final boards)
9600PRO (0.13) 400/300 128bitDDR 4pipes 9.6GB/s 1.6Gp/s

[Karl|Neo]

Yer thx guys, just pretty much confirmed my choices for me, btw, is it really worth gerrin a DVD writer at the moment? If so has any one got any recommendations for a cheapish 1? I've budgetted for everything else but that, as I didnt think it was neccessary.

[Karl|Neo]

Oh n yes Austin I do plan to O/c, bit of a stupid question ;-)

[Mallus]

Yes I would recommend getting a dvd writer, I have used mine countless times in the year or so I have had it. I would recommend a pioneer drive as they have always been good to me

[TooNice]

I must admit that I am still not entirely convinced that SATA cut CPU usage. Basically, a quick search on google hasn't revealed much on regarding this.
Take this PDF for example taken from the Maxtor website:
http://www.maxtor.com/en/documentati...t_a_glance.pdf

No mention of it at all, yet it would've made SATA that little bit more attractive.

Another example:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1329772,00.asp
Look at the WinBench result.

*shrug*

Another point, Seagate's Barracuda drive (SATA versions - note that this drive is known to be quiet, but not super high performance) is the only "Native" SATA drive in the market so far. WD (save the Raptor?), Maxtor, IBM/Hitachi's offerings are all using a parallel-to-serial bridge.
The effects is probably not measurable at high level, but still...
If I go SATA now, I'll be for the cable, saving one IDE channel rather than any performance benefits.

[Karl|Neo]

Hey, is the MSI 865PE Neo-2 n e gud, only i can get one of them quite cheap?

[Korky]

The 4 main components there overclock to give u a top spec machine and it makes u smill to see such a great price for what could tan anything else with a bit more mhz :-> oh and stop putting people of pro's!!! if they can afford it, its worth the extra!

[Austin]

PRO's are worth it for those wanting the extra perf but are afraid to o/c. Of course it depends on the specific model in question. Eg.

9800 easily o/c's to around 9800PRO speed and can save you a lot too.

9700 as a general rule easily surpass the 9700PRO in speed, hence they can run faster than the 9800 and often close to 9800PRO.

9600 will never hit 9600PRO speeds as the RAM is a severe bottleneck (never say never but even so).

9500 will never worry 9500PRO (except for modding those very few ones released on the 9700PCB).

9000 and 9200 are usually clocked well below their PRO counterparts, still should have some headroom in them to narrow the gap, esp the core (if actively cooled).

Then on to the XT's.

9800PRO (and even 9800/9700) should have little trouble yeilding similar perf to 9800XT.

9600PRO should easily be able to clock higher than the 9600XT, unless ATI use faster RAM on the final 9600XT but even then diffs are likely to be small.

So a lot is down to how much extra perf the PRO/XT cards possess, how much extra they cost and how close the 'lesser' versions are likely to get when o/c'ed.

[Mallus]

And get a CM black widow! They are gorgeous cases