Emachines, Celerons and Firewires

[Galant]

I'm currently looking at the best way to get a new PC - build or buy retail? I was hooked on build but recently found what looks like a good retail offer - I'm a bit wary though.

The unit is a Celeron 2.6, 512 RAM (don't know speed or make), and a firewire capable motherboard also featuring built in video and sound. Don't know the make of the board either, and couldn't tell from looking at it.

The thing is, I don't whether that Celeron will be everything its numbers make it out to be, and I'm also wondering about that motherboard. The unit itself is an emachines piece - C2865 if I remeber rightly. Annoyingly, their website covers many models, but not that one.

So what's the story? Can anyone advise?

If I go back to my build, I may have to change my mobo. I was looking at the MSI K7N2 Delta-L, however, it turns out I may well need firewire - so then can anyone suggest a comparable board that is firewire capable?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
G.

[Byatt]

If you're looking to do anything more complex than say, Notepad, I'd find it very hard to justify any system built around a Celeron.

Self-build is the way to go...A lot of AMD based motherboards now have native firewire (most of the top end n-force 2s do)

the LISR version of the K7N2 does feature firewire.

as does:
the nf7-s from Abit
the a7n8x deluxe from Asus
EP-8RDA3+, EP-8RDA3G and the EP-8RDA+ from Epox

to name but a few.

[Swafe]

1, dont go with an emachines

companies like this, and pc world etc normally use the cheapest lamest componants, the onboard graphics - theyll be terrible, my first pcs video performance leaped 500-600% when i installed a ge force 2 mx....the onboard using sd ram was appauling

pc world use rubbish, like fx 5200s, saying latest nvidia graphics processor ! to woo punters - but its all rubbish, there all cheap and useless nonsence to try and get every penny they can out of the public, my mate bought a pc last week for 800 quid, i told him he could have bought it from me instead of pc world for ~50-60% of the price.

futhermore with that youll have pc2100 ddr ram - you wont get no flashy dual channel 3200 ram - itll be cheap bog standard rubbish - which brings me to the celeron

the 370s were on but from there on 478 there appauling - i saw one overclocked to 3ghz put to the test with a xp2000 (1.666ghz) thats nearly half the clock speed - undoubltably with the high bandwidth the celeron won, but on some tests the amd won- nearly half the clock speed and probably half the price for similar perforamance


i dont normally post like this bitchin about everything but it really annoys me to see ppl like pc world - the dopes they are making high amounts of money from normal people because they just dont know any better




advice part 1 - if you can build your own, if not get a mate to do it and slip him a few quid and a pint - itll save you a lot more than any sale bargain ! in pc world- which will still be stupidly overpriced

part 2 - dont go for celeron if you dont have to - there a pile of crap (i should know 75% of the pcs ive owned are celeron due to the cheap price point ) and after having a go on someones xp2k, im never goin back after this one

part 3 - try not to get inegrated, or onboard graphics like emachines, ok its cheap, so if your net surfin or emailing thats FINE, but, if you are goin to use this do to anything like games, divx watching, dvd watchin, itll pay to spend a bit extra and get a half decent graphics card


rant over :|

[Swafe]

oh and for the firewire - a decent mobo should give you on onboard- but dont buy the emachines one thinking its all that with its snazzy firewire ports - ebuyer will sell you a PCI card for not a lot and will save you a lotta dosh

[Galant]

Thanks for the info.
As for firewire, I really don't know squat about it. I just no my brother is into video editing etc, and he asked for firewire to connect his cameras.

So it's possible to simply by a motherboard like the MSI k&n2 and then buy use one of the PCI slots to facilitate firewire?

If so, I simple take a look around for 'firewire cards'?

[Swafe]

yup e.g.

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...duct_uid=34833

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...duct_uid=21241

[Galant]

Muchas gracias!

And if I may bother your brains one more time:

Can you recommend any websites for reviews of components? I've found tons selling them, but as for the mass numbers of motherboards, gfx cards etc., I find little providing reviews, or even better, comparisons.

[Swafe]

well you could try www.ebuyer.com

i noticed your in arizona - and ebayer now do USA as well - there cheap and cheerful ovver here not too sure about the US tho

theres quite a few mobos on there - and thats the only place i can think of, on the UK site at least ( not too sure about the USA on how many ppl go there) but if theres a popular motherboard people reivew them after they have been bought - so its good then they give it 5/5 stars - not sure how much depth you want but this is a good rough guide to what a lot of the general public think - if you want a few single ones in detail - google can probably help you

[Galant]

With regards to the mobo, I checked out MSI and on their K7N2 Delta-ILSR they have this little sections:

"Due to the High Performance Memory design, motherboards or system configurations may or may not operate smoothly at the JEDEC (Joint Electron Device Engineering Council) standard settings (BIOS Default on the motherboard) such as DDR voltage, memory speeds and memory timing. Please confirm and adjust your memory setting in the BIOS accordingly for better system stability."

Is that something that's going to throw me for a six since it's my first build?

[Austin]

Just covering themselves I'd say. Since RAM got to PC3200 before it was JEDEC added to which it soon ramped up to PC4000 (again without JEDEC) it's only natural for mobo makers to be a little apprehensive about guaranteeing all RAM with our mobos. Esp so since most stuff > PC3200 is little more than overvolted PC3200. If you overvolt something it tends to improve the electrical signal strength allowing for higher lcock speeds. So basically don't worry about it, esp if you stick to decent branded PC3200 which is all SktA (AMD) needs and for that matter all non-o/c'ed P4's need too.

As for the rest it has been covered so I'll just reiterate. Big companies like PC World use really crap parts and are an awful waste of money. Celerons based on the P4 (like all current ones) are abysmal full stop. A Celeron o/c'ed to 3ghz is still beaten virtually ALL the time by an AthlonXP2000+ (1.67ghz) AND P4 2.0ghz. Onboard sound is now decent enough and in the case of nForce2 with MCP-T or Soundstorm it's top notch. Onboard gfx are totally crap though, fine for 2D but awful for any 3D. Even the cheapest AGP slot solutions own onboard desktop crap.

Build it yourself or get a friend to. What you should look to is an AMD system as that's the best 'perf per pound' by far. A lot depends upon whether you want some o/c'ing either now or in the near future. It's well worth it as so long as you're sensible you can safely get an XP1700+ to XP2700+ or XP2500+ to XP3200+ and sometimes beyond. If you check other posts on what to buy and 'this is my proposed spec' you'll find wealths of info on the rest of your system.

[directhex]

actually, there exists an SDR chipset for modern P4 chips, and I know from having worked at PC World that eMachines use it on all the machines they can - think of the blazing speed of a celeron 2.6 powered by PC133, especially considering how little cache & memory bandwidth matter on a P4...

[Swafe]

i can imagine - p4 celerons run a bus of 533 (133x4) so i can imagine ppl like pc world giving people celerons, which complete rubbish, and a sdmobo - with sdram with onboard everything - pathetic mobo - pathetic cpu - pathetic ram and pathetic onboard graphics, just to maximise their profits they could probably dish up a 2.6ghz celeron system for not much more than 2-300 quid - yet with its supposed high specifications, and broadband readyness (a whole usb port ) could get 600 quid easy out of the average unknowing punter

[Austin]

A friend of my wife's forked out big bucks for a P4 1.6ghz (PC World IIRC) when they first came out. Guess what? It had SDR PC133 and yes it sucked awfully (slower than a PIII 1ghz). I can't remember what gfx it had, most likely onboard or TNT2, GF2MX if she was lucky. Did she ask me what was good to buy ... or if I'd build it for her? NO. Her loss. Want to know why she went P4? Because the salesman had an AMD T-shirt on she wouldn't believe him when he said Athlons were much better and much cheaper.

[Agent]

Originally posted by Austin
Esp so since most stuff > PC3200 is little more than overvolted PC3200.

Maybe for generic RAM (and even then ive not come across this ), but for all named RAM (Mushkin, OCZ, Geil, and even A-Data) - the chips that are used are certified to their rated speed, and not overvolted.
They may require more voltage than PC2700 / 3200, but its within the chips specification.

[Austin]

I am perhaps a little unfair to RAM that hasn't had the JEDEC nod. Still I bet most decent branded PC3200 will achieve similar speeds when using the same sort of voltages as many PC3500+ use. Still there's so little profit in RAM that the brands have to do something to make a decent profit eh?

[Korky]

if ur looking for a site that reviews hardware ur on it hexus reviews and links to loads of reviews on the main page.