Mini Upgrade

[The Codfather]

I'll be doing a little upgrade next week, namely CPU, Mobo and Graphics card so I'm just looking for any suggestions people may have and a little advice.

I'm most probably going for the XFX 7900GT (Extreme 1500, 520 ver.) for graphics card and the Asus A8N-SLI Premium for the mobo because I know it's tried and tested and I've read nothing but good things about it.

CPU wise is where I need advice, I was going to go for the 939 3800+ as it's fairly cheap and will be a big jump from my current CPU (Athlon XP 3200+) I don't really have the money for dual core at the moment so it seemed like a good option, but then I started thinking about the Opterons. I've heard good things about them around here and other hardware sites, but I'm not really that clued in on them.

Is it worth going for an Opteron versus the other option of the A64 3800+ or can anyone suggest something else?
I know Dual Core would be nice, but I really don't want this to be that huge of an upgrade and I can always move to it in the future when I've more money to throw at the system.

[ajones]

Appreciate I'm avoiding the question, but...

if you are thinking already of upgrading again in the future, maybe you should consider adding DDR2 to your shopping list and spend a little more on AM2 based components.

You don't get your tried'n'trusted mobo, but just some food for thought.

[The Codfather]

Aye, I know about the DDR2 issue and AM2, but I already have a perfectly good 2GB of PC3200 at the moment that I can use on a 939 system.

I just want to make this a tiny upgrade, then build a full machine later in the year based on Conroe most probably.

[dave87]

To be honest, with both AMD and Intel expected to have massive price cuts (intel due to an impending law suit, amd due to the impending release of conroe) it would be worth waiting for a while. The upgradeaholics will be flogging their x2s to go to conroe, so expect a price crash in second hand ones, and normal users will be able to buy single cores cheaper because atm, its the only thing AMD can compete on

[The Codfather]

Hm. The only reason I'm eager to upgrade at the moment is because I've been offered £140 for my Gainward 6800GT so I can make a pretty cheap upgrade to PCI-E and what looks like is going to be 939. I wouldn't have otherwise and would be waiting for Conroe, but this seems like a good opportunity to get a little boost out of my machine for a little cash.

Just got to decide on the CPU :/

[DanceswithUnix]

You don't say what use you are expecting from the machine, but assuming games playing the graphics card is way more important so I am sure you will be utterly delighted with whatever you get.

The 3800 is indeed a steal at the current price.
A 3700 may be faster is some cases as it has 1MB cache, but then the price goes up.
Opterons are great if you overclock, otherwise the 3700 is cheaper.

[-ChEM-]

if you just want something for the time being that will do well for as little money as possible just get a low clock venice and OC it, it should beat the 3800+ easily (it will do 2.2 - 2.7ghz) and cost less

the whole upgradathon race is taking a different turn now, i see it as:
a) theres no real need for a dual core chip right now, a single core at the same clock is basically just as good
b) once things do go multithreaded all single cores will be severely handicapped compared to duals whether its a 3ghz+ opteron or a 1.8ghz 3000+
c) games will probably be multithreaded before they become too power hungry to play on a good A64

so if you get an opteron that does 3.1ghz you probably wont ever get the chance to use it properly as it can only ever be a single core, and given that hardly any games can make use of both cores and conroe is coming its not really worth getting a dual core now instead of waiting for later

so stick with a venice, get it to 2.3-2.5ghz and youll be fine
or go all out and get a dual core that will stand a chance against conroe (i have just attemped this as i didnt really have the option to wait)

[The Codfather]

You don't say what use you are expecting from the machine, but assuming games playing the graphics card is way more important so I am sure you will be utterly delighted with whatever you get.

Oops sorry should've said >_<, yes it'll primarily be for gaming purposes, I wouldn't throw aside the prospect of overclocking, but having never done it before with a CPU (my only experience is with GPU's and that's fairly simple when sticking to basic Core/RAM clocking) I'll definately take a good look at the 3700 and 3800 and have a good think about the Opterons.

Is clocking them difficult? and if it is simple enough, which chips would you recommend?

[EDIT- Thanks -ChEM- you must've posted as I was in the middle of writing mine (and pretending to work..) As I say, I'm not against OC'ing, but I have no previous experience, so I'd need to know about suggested cooling and what I'd need to do to actually achieve such clocks.]

Thanks for the help so far everyone

[DanceswithUnix]

I must say that is a *lot* of money to spend on a motherboard if you don't intend to keep it for long.

Here is a cat for your pidgeons

You could always spend less on the motherboard, get an AM2 based system and use the saved money to help buy DDR2 memory. You will have to buy it for Conroe anyway! An AM2 3200+ is only a pound more than S939.

Should you end up putting off upgrading to conroe for long enough, then you should have a platform that can take a quad core K8L chip some time in the future.

[-ChEM-]

well thats the only reason you would want an opteron, theyre just like any other chip except they clock sky high, ive got my 170 at very near an FX-62 speed now for &#163;200

if you dont want to OC the 3800+ is better as the clockspeed is worth a lot more than the cache in games

if you want to OC you need to know about the different speeds, multipliers and voltages in your system, if you have a grasp of that you can just go through things logically... plus a cooler like the A64 freezer pro which is a good bargain and will do the job (&#163;20ish i think) and a decent power supply and maybe a couple of case fans

this is the principle of it:
htt aka fsb - this is the central, most important setting for OCing, A64 chips have an htt and intel and old athlons have an fsb but to mathematically understand the OC theyre the same thing and its always set to default 200mhz in the new 939 and AM2 chips
cpu multi - this is just a number and cannot be raised higher than the factory setting
cpu speed = htt (or fsb) x cpu multi

so the amd lineup is:
200mhz x 9 = 1800mhz (3000+)
200mhz x 10 = 2000mhz (3200+)
200mhz x 11 = 2200mhz (3500+ and 3700+)
200mhz x 12 = 2400mhz (3800+ and 4000+)

now when you want to overclock, the multiplier is locked so you have no choice but to raise the HTT so to get 2400 you would need 240mhz x 10, or with the 3000+ chip (limited to the factory multi of x9) 267mhz x 9

that is how overclocking would work but there are other settings that you need to know about to keep the memory stable (divider, timings, mem voltage) and keep the hypertransport bus in a stable range (LDT multiplier) as they both also depend on the HTT speed and also know about CPU voltage to get it to clock higher without risking damaging it

thats the lot, i count 9 things to know and tbh timings and mem voltage arent important if you use a divider, if you can be bothered to read a couple of walkthroughs you wont have any problems

[DanceswithUnix]

I just set the HTT frequency in the BIOS and let the BIOS set memory dividers etc in their automatic settings. Yes, I know I am losing a bit of ram performance doing that, but having the settings a little conservative suits me fine - I want to work & play games, not run SuperPi

My 3000+ is upped to 2.4GHz. As I only have a x9 multiplier my HTT frequency is getting rather high, but at the time the 3200 (way more preferable as a start point) was a lot more money. I am sure I could go further but at this speed the Cool n Quiet still works and I am not convinced I would feel much difference.

[The Codfather]

Cool thanks a lot. I'll definately be going the Opteron route I think. My current cooler is a Gigabtye G-Power Pro (borrows a lot from the Thermaltake XP120 design) do you think that'd do the job?

Oh, the reason I'll be spending a bit on the board (and &#163;94 isn't *that* much for a mobo) is that when I build the next PC this one will be left as a PC for the parents (who game occasionally) so I'd rather leave them with something I won't have to touch for a good few years to come, then I can focus on building the Conroe machine completely how I'd like it with just me in mind.

[-ChEM-]

i would be very unlikely not to get 280 HTT out of those boards, but it doesnt hurt to wait until you have something that needs it before you clock higher

once ive got this configured at the max im just going to save the bios config and turn it down until i need it higher or at least until ive got a new graphics card

[-ChEM-]

the cooler isnt great... what are your psu and memory?

and are you going to get a single core opteron?

[DanceswithUnix]

50 quid gets you an Nforce 4-430 micro-ATX board with gigabit ethernet, firewire etc.

Like this.

I have one at work so I wouldn't overclock with it so can't say how good it is at that, but as an all round motherboard I am impressed. It will never do SLI, and it only has 2 PCI slots, but then most people use the built in sound etc so that is fine.

[The Codfather]

Well my sound is currently provided via X-Fi Fatality, so I'll need more room than 2 PCI slots, just for coolings sake.
I think I'll go for a Single Core Opteron and pick up the Artic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro.

RAM is going to be provided by 4x 512MB sticks, 2x Corsair XMS Pro and 2x GeiL Ultra-X both PC3200 clocked at 2-3-3-6 presently and seem to have no problem working together at all.
PSU is a Hiper Type R 580w.