1 last question :P Memory Timings on a Gigabyte DS4

Hey all, I have two gig of Corsair DDR2 800 with stock timings of 4-4-4-12.

I put them in the right slots in my mobo and am using the PC happily for a few weeks now. Everything seems ok. And everything to do with memory in the bios is set to "Auto".

But I got a program called CPU-Z which gives full details on your CPU and RAM and it raised a bit of suspicion.

On the "SPD" page, it says:

Frequency: 400 Mhz
CAS# Latency: 4.0
RAS# to CAS#: 4
RAS# Precharge: 4
Tras: 12
Trc: 22
Command Rate: 2T

I only know what the first 5 entries mean, but that seems ok.

BUT, on the "Memory" page in CPU-Z, it said:

CAS# Latency: 5.0
RAS# to CAS#: 5
RAS# Precharge: 5


I guess what it all meant, is that its seeing my memory and its suitable speeds in the SPD page, but the Memory page shows what its actually running at, and the speeds are too slow.

So I went into the bios and tried changing stuff. I got a few blue screens when booting, but if I set the first few entries to 4-4-4-12 and then the rest to auto, it boots fine, and in CPU-Z the SPD page is the same, but the Memory page now says:

CAS# Latency: 4.0
RAS# to CAS#: 4 clocks
RAS# Precharge: 4 clocks
Cycle Time (Tras): 12 clocks


So, did I do the right thing? Or have I overclocked it? :p I just want it to run at its normal speed. So have I done that now, or should I put it back to the way it was? And if it IS right now, how come they where all 5's earlier? Shouldn't it detect this by itself without me having to change the numbers?

Thanks all!

I had a discussion with Corsair about this. The memory is advertised as 4-4-4-12 but it will not work automatically at those figures. The SPD defaults to 5-5-5-18!

The answer from Corsair was that these chips have been proved to run at 4-4-4-12 for the long term with no ill effe3cts but to get it to do that you need to set the figures manually and increase the DIMM voltage to 2.1V from 1.8V default. On the DS4 this means pressing CTRL-F1 in the BIOS to get the advanced tweaking functions in the MIT page and then setting voltage to manual instead of auto and set DIMM volts to +0.3.

HTH?

Oh and if you are running it with a C2D chip then timings dont make as much of an impact as memory speed - I run my C2d E6600 at 300 FSB instead of 266 which gives me 2.7GHz instead of default 2.4. The memory runs at 1200 along with the FSB which gives me a mem throughput of between 5.8 and 5.9 GB/sec (according to SiSoft Sandra) and a 16 second 1Meg Superpi run.

Thanks! I did the Control-F1 thing to change them to the advertised speeds. I am too scared to do any changes to the FSB, especially with some temperature concerns I have at the moment.

Do you reckon I should leave it with what I've done for now then anyway? Its saying 4-4-4-12 in both the bios and CPU-Z, but I was just worried that I might be pushing the RAM and I dont want to do that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by acrobat

Thanks! I did the Control-F1 thing to change them to the advertised speeds. I am too scared to do any changes to the FSB, especially with some temperature concerns I have at the moment.

Do you reckon I should leave it with what I've done for now then anyway? Its saying 4-4-4-12 in both the bios and CPU-Z, but I was just worried that I might be pushing the RAM and I dont want to do that.

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No your not pushing that RAM at all - it'll take a lot more than that but as I said, latency isn't as much of an issue with C2D processors.

What cooling concerns do you have? I swapped stock C2D cooler for Arctic Cooling Pro 7 and took about 6 or 7 degrees of my temps.

I have a thread going at the moment, I had bad temps with my stock cooler and then I fitted an Arctic Cooling Pro 7 aswell, but the temps shot up. I have since re-fitted it and put more paste on and now I have mediocre temps :(

SpeedFan shows great temps, but using IntelTAT it is 46 idle, and 60 when left on 100% load (on both cores) for a while.

This is with the fan running silently, but I the only other option I have is to have it on full blast and then its really loud.

Thanks by the way, Im glad to know atleast my RAM is running properly hehe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by acrobat

I have a thread going at the moment, I had bad temps with my stock cooler and then I fitted an Arctic Cooling Pro 7 aswell, but the temps shot up. I have since re-fitted it and put more paste on and now I have mediocre temps :(

SpeedFan shows great temps, but using IntelTAT it is 46 idle, and 60 when left on 100% load (on both cores) for a while.

This is with the fan running silently, but I the only other option I have is to have it on full blast and then its really loud.

Thanks by the way, Im glad to know atleast my RAM is running properly hehe.

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I am running an overclocked E6600 as mentioned. I run two cores of folding at home (distributed computing) so my CPU is maxed out 24/7. With the overclock and the Freezer Pro7 my average high temp for the E6600 is 42 Degrees C.

It may be worth reseating your fan and ensure it is the right way round (blowing towards the back of the case). Whn applying heat compound use a good one and put as little as possible on. Basically, just enough to coat the surface without leaving gaps. Use a credit card to smooth it :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by acrobat

I have a thread going at the moment, I had bad temps with my stock cooler and then I fitted an Arctic Cooling Pro 7 aswell, but the temps shot up. I have since re-fitted it and put more paste on and now I have mediocre temps :(
.

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When you say you put more paste on, did you thoroughly remove the original paste, or did you just slap more on? Did you use something good (Artic Silver 5 or Zalman ZM-STG1) or 'free' generic stuff?

Thermal paste needs to be very thin layer and evenly applied to both surfaces, you are bridging tiny gaps and imperfections. Too Much Paste = High Temps.

Thanks guys.

Paste is high quality expensive stuff. Put on with an old credit card, the right amount in the right place.

Old stuff was thoroughly removed first with Akasa Thermal Compound Remover and a pack of lint free cloths.

Fan on the heatsink is facing the back of the case and is spinning properly.

I only put the compound on the CPU though, not on the heatsink. The only problem I encountered is fitting the HSF. 3 corners went in perfectly but one corner went in but when I turned the plastic screw thing, it made a cracking noise rather than a clicking-into-place noise. It looks like its in all the way, but I dont think its as tight as it should be. I can try doing it again (a 3rd time), and if it doesn't work then, I will have to buy another one :( or get this one replaced.

p.s.
When putting the compound on, should it be thick enough so that you cant see the metal underneath? First time I did it thick like that, and it came oozing out the sides when I put the heatsink on. Second time, I did a tiny dot in the middle and it was no way near enough. This last time, I put it on about two thirds of the CPU but it was quite thin. I could see the CPU in some of the uneven bits. It was a smooth as I could get it though, without hiring a plasterer. If I do it again though, I could put more on to make it thick enough to not see the metal under and bits. I would just be concerned that it would come out the sides though when I put the HSF on.

---edit---
I'll probably do it again tomorrow. Dont like doing it when im tired. Im getting good at taking stuff out and putting it back together now... so im not as scared about doing it. I suppose I just need to keep doing it until I get good temps :P Its definitely not right though at the moment, because although the temps arent dangerous, they are quite bad (60 degrees in IntelTAT at full load) and thats with an Arctic Cooler 7 Pro - which most people get really low temps with.

I generally put on a tiny blob of paste on the base of the heatsink and rub it in with a cloth to fill in the micro gaps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aidanjt

I generally put on a tiny blob of paste on the base of the heatsink and rub it in with a cloth to fill in the micro gaps.

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Wow I might have to try that. Dont you worry about fibres from the cloth getting in the compound? Also, after you rubbed it in, do you have it so thin that you can see the metal through it? Or is it so thick that all you can see is paste?

I reckon my problem is likely to be the last hole when fitting my HSF. I might try to do that hole first next time and make sure its in right. Then do the others. I should really take the whole motherboard out so I can see under it and check the plastic bits are all the way though... but taking the whole thing out would be quite a hassle. If I get a new HSF I will definitely do that. Tomorrow though, I'll just try seating it again.

Just remember that as the HS compound heats up it becomes more liquid and will "flow to an extent. This is one of the many reasons that a newly mounted fan takes a while to reach peak efficiency - it takes a while for the compound to level out. As long as you do not leave huge air gaps where air could super heat and damage the CPU you'll be ok.


The thickness should be enough to ensure a good contact across as much as possible of the surface area without having "voids". - LESS IS MORE!!! ;)

Oh and always secure the fixings in two's by securing opposite posts at the same time - do not work your way round the CPU - you should be securing two at once diagonally opposite each other.

Yeah I do the opposites approach. My compound has only had several hours to heat up, but I think Im a good 10 degrees above what I should be anyway :( So even a few degrees wont help me.

I'll fit it again tomorrow, and I'll get a chance to see how the last compound I put on spread out. If it didnt reach the edges, I can probably use some more. Im gunna try rubbing it in a bit more this time too, to make sure it fills any little cracks.

My main concern will be getting all 4 corners of the HSF to click in place though. If its still hot after this next try... then I have no idea what is wrong :( and I'll have to get a new HSF.

This is my compound by the way:
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...oductID=382305

What temps are you getting? use speedfan to have a look it's pretty accurate.

SpeedFan shows decent temps. Idle its at 30. Full load (using intel TAT to push the load) and its at 49.

The problem is when I used IntelTAT to tell me the temps, because its meant to show a more accurate temperature using the onboard digital thermometre. Its also meant to show the hottest part of the core where as SpeedFan only shows the reading given by the sensor near the chip.

It idles at about 46, and on full load its around 60.

Theres a little program called "CoreTemp" which is meant to test the hottest part of the CPU aswell, and it gives the exact same results as Intel TAT. From what I've read on the net, other people are getting about 10degrees less both idle and under load, when using IntelTAT.

I downloaded Coretemp to see what my CPU gives. At full load both cores give 51 degrees C.

Thanks for trying that! What are you using to simulate full load?

I'm definitely screwed anyway, cause at full load (using IntelTAT) my "CoreTemp" temperatures said 62 degrees :/

I'll do my final refit of it today sometime, and if its not better after that, I'll have to just buy a new heatsink&fan :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by acrobat

Wow I might have to try that. Dont you worry about fibres from the cloth getting in the compound? Also, after you rubbed it in, do you have it so thin that you can see the metal through it? Or is it so thick that all you can see is paste?

I reckon my problem is likely to be the last hole when fitting my HSF. I might try to do that hole first next time and make sure its in right. Then do the others. I should really take the whole motherboard out so I can see under it and check the plastic bits are all the way though... but taking the whole thing out would be quite a hassle. If I get a new HSF I will definitely do that. Tomorrow though, I'll just try seating it again.

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I spread thin layer over CPU (blob in middle and spread with plastic card), and spread very thinn layer over heatsink and scrape most of it off - only want to fill voids.

Check out this link http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_s...structions.htm

Thanks, that sounds good. I hope it goes better for me next time. I really thought I nailed it this time... I cleaned both the heatsink and CPU really thoroughly with Akasa Thermal Compound Remover, and lint free cloths. Then let it dry properly, and put the new compound on and spread it with a spreader card. Then got the thing fitted really tight. Only concern I had was the last clip didnt seem to make the right noise when I turned it into locking position, but it looked fully pushed in and held.

Will give it one last try in a bit, and if not... I'll have to try buying a new heatsink and fan.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by acrobat

Thanks for trying that! What are you using to simulate full load?

I'm definitely screwed anyway, cause at full load (using IntelTAT) my "CoreTemp" temperatures said 62 degrees :/

I'll do my final refit of it today sometime, and if its not better after that, I'll have to just buy a new heatsink&fan :(

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I use 2 instances of F@H (Folding at Home) - it's Medical Research Distributed Computing

Argh, think I just need a new Arctic Cooler :(

I took it all apart again... and cleaned the stuff and reapplied the compound.

I fitted it again, and I couldnt get the last clip to go down AGAIN... I was really careful with it, and all corners are in the holes properly, and I pushed them all down hard and they all clipped in. I turned the screws to secure them all.

Last time, one of them seemed to not be perfect. It had about half a millemetre give when I pressed it. This time they are all in as far as they go and its all secured in place. Seems super solid. But my temps are the exact same.


INTEL TAT:
Idle: 46 degrees.
Both cores loaded: 60 degrees.

If I left it on full load for more than a couple of minutes, I suspect that would end up being about 61 or 62.

I think if the thermal compound can shave off a few degrees after it settles, that will make it better. But I still just hate being at around 60 when both cores are pushed. It may come down to like 55-58 in a week or so, but thats still too high I think, considering its an after market cooler.

So I think I'll call Scan and see if I can get a replacement Arctic Cooling 7 Pro. I dont know if they will replace it for free or not :( But Im gunna try. If they wont do it for free, I might buy a different one, like a big burtha or whatever its called.

I really want temps in the 30's when idle and 40s when fully loaded.