Real WW2 Weapons: HOW HEAVY?

[Zak33]

Good Afternoon Soldiers, Welcome.

I've been wandering the south of Wales for a very pleasant few days, and I visited the excellent treasure trove that is CAREW CHERITON CONTROL TOWER.
http://www.carewcheritoncontroltower.co.uk/

From this in the 1980's....
to this

This little place is PACKED with WW2 memorabilia, and I've been lucky enough to visit several times, as a good friend of mine knows the guys who are striving for historic perfection there.

With a little coaxing John Brock allowed me to have a good inspection of the Lee Enfield Rifle. Being a Left Hooker, I immediately pulled it into the wrong shoulder....

and then discovered I couldn't reload it as the lever was to the right....

How hard was THAT to do? Not a very heavy gun, but the bolt needed pushing home quite firmly and it was tricky... I have NO IDEA what that was like in the heat and stress of battle. But I DID know how to do it... CoD5 gave me a damn good idea, scarily.

Right shoulder, this is me looking seriously awkward tring to push the bolt home


and then aiming, though the stock is far too short for moi
(yes Tumble... that's a 200lb'er tail fin on the floor next to me )

The thing is... I'm not a big lad... but I can hold a rifle for a while.. and this one was immaculate, so I was more than keen to have a play for a while.. and the old shoulders ached after only a few minutes... wimp!

I told John Brock, the old boy who runs it.. that the gun must have been hard work to carry for weeks on end with all the extra equipment and ammo..... and he pulled out the BREN GUN

"Heft THAT" he says..and begins to tell me about soldiers running with this monster and firing from the hip....

In a vain attemt to look macho, I managed a few shoulder shots....
but let me tell you.. I was WOBBLING. The thing weighs more than my 2 year old son, and had just as many awkward sticky out bendy bits

SO next time you're holding your HEAVY MACHINE GUN dead still on a target spot, stood or crouched.. camping your little heart out.. for 5 minutes... well... it just wouldn't happen.

AND BUNNY HOPPING.. HAH.. DONT MAKE ME LAUGH!

So .. prone.... get on the floor and make like a hidden killing machine (in this case, Zak Camps out behind the wooden chairs, next to some nice artwork )


And dont forget the old Grenade's either....


I tried a feint effort of swinging that bren Gun around for a multiple target sweep of the horizon... and nearly dropped it from effort

So....you boys know what this means... don't you? NO BUNNY HOPPING

[Moby-Dick]

They are surprisingly heavy aren't they , though the problem with a bren gun is that its not that easy to "sweep" - a GPMG is considerably easier

We had a couple of brens at school but no .303 rounds for them , and the school didn't fancy getting them converted to fire modern 7.62mm ammunition.

[jim]

As if we needed any further confirmation that a soldier with full kit and gun couldn't bounce around like he's using a pogo stick!

It would be interesting actually for game designers to implement a system to prevent bunny hopping based on the experience of actually holding a gun - perhaps that after jumping the gun goes flying all over the place and it takes a while to get any accuracy back again? In other words, like sprinting useful when trying to get somewhere as quickly as possible, but not advisable in the heat of combat.

Very interesting stuff, cheers for the uploads.

[samcross]

But. But. But. You don't look like David Tennant

Back OT(), if you ever want more proof of just how impossible it is too leap around like a ballet dancer when you're carry a massive gun, go and try airsoft

[Zak33]

But. But. But. You don't look like David Tennant

deliberate lack of side burns, and no suit

[Flibb]

If you fancy having a go with an Enfield, and lots of other historic rifles, the Lee Enfield Rifle Associaition attend the NRA Bisley open days, the next ones on Sat 5th September.
http://www.leeenfieldrifleassociation.org.uk
and heres a member doing the mad minute, all shots are aimed and on target
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m1yN...om=PL&index=48
He manages 20 in the minute with reload. Think the record is 34.

[MaddAussie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA9JP...A0F82&index=52

[Andy3536]

Great thread, nice to get your hands on some old weapons. Not age restricted either..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV59_...eature=related

[TeePee]

I, officially, want an Enfield.

I've shot one at the local gunshop/shooting range. I actually went in to ask about a transfer, but as soon as he heard my accent he dragged me over to a rack of weapons. The shop was a bit of a muzzleloading specialty store, but had a lot of other C&R weapons as well. I spent about an hour shooting a variety at the attached range, and learning from the owner. I shot a couple of flintlocks, the Enfield, a similar age Swiss bolt gun, and a Moisin. l'll probably pick up the Enfield ($450) and Moisin ($90) as the wife allows. A fantastic piece of history, and well worth the experience.

[BUFF]

So .. prone.... get on the floor and make like a hidden killing machine (in this case, Zak Camps out behind the wooden chairs, next to some nice artwork )

prone your free hand is meant to go over the top of the stock by your cheek ...
of course you're also meant to fire that right-handed with your loader on the right side of you.

I've got quite a bit of experience with the no.4 , the LMG (7.62mm converted Bren) & the L1A1 SLR (slightly heavier than a no.4).

The problem with the Bren is that it was too accurate (I used to be able to put a 3 round burst basically through the same hole at 200m). The GPMG that replaced it naturally sprays rounds in a figure of 8 pattern ...

[Moby-Dick]

I, officially, want an Enfield.

I've shot one at the local gunshop/shooting range. I actually went in to ask about a transfer, but as soon as he heard my accent he dragged me over to a rack of weapons. The shop was a bit of a muzzleloading specialty store, but had a lot of other C&R weapons as well. I spent about an hour shooting a variety at the attached range, and learning from the owner. I shot a couple of flintlocks, the Enfield, a similar age Swiss bolt gun, and a Moisin. l'll probably pick up the Enfield ($450) and Moisin ($90) as the wife allows. A fantastic piece of history, and well worth the experience.

A guy I work with in the US has a Mosin - loves it but the range of ammo is a bit limited.


BUFF - that was what I'd heard about the bren too

[Zak33]

prone your free hand is meant to go over the top of the stock by your cheek ...
of course you're also meant to fire that right-handed with your loader on the right side of you.

I'm such a south paw... I always pull into my left shoulder.. the sights didn't work for me as you can imagine.. had to bring my head right over the stock...

[TeePee]

Well, I picked up the Mosin Nagant this evening. It's a 91/30 manufactured in 1942 in the Soviet Izhevsk arsenal. Based on the date alone, it could have been carried through Stalingrad. The numbers all match, but no way to trace the history of this specific rifle.

The bore looks good, but the first thing I did was to strip it and start cleaning. It was soaked in cosmoline to preserve it, which is like axle grease. I haven't decided yet if I'll refinish the stock. The original shellac is patchy, and while I'll use the same stuff to refinish and I won't be doing any sanding, I'd like to keep it original, even though it's not exactly a rare firearm.

Pictures of rifle and range visit will follow. I have a box of 7.62x54R just waiting!

[Zak33]

Well, I picked up the Mosin Nagant this evening. It's a 91/30 manufactured in 1942 in the Soviet Izhevsk arsenal. Based on the date alone, it could have been carried through Stalingrad. The numbers all match, but no way to trace the history of this specific rifle.

The bore looks good, but the first thing I did was to strip it and start cleaning. It was soaked in cosmoline to preserve it, which is like axle grease. I haven't decided yet if I'll refinish the stock. The original shellac is patchy, and while I'll use the same stuff to refinish and I won't be doing any sanding, I'd like to keep it original, even though it's not exactly a rare firearm.

Pictures of rifle and range visit will follow. I have a box of 7.62x54R just waiting!

I'll have to give you specific permission for gun pictures and so forth....we're pretty canny about such things.

but..

pm me when you're ready... I'd looking forward to it

[jimborae]

My school armoury was stuffed to the gills with .303's as thats what we used in the cadets before the SA80 based cadet GP came along. Yep they were heavy and back then I was a skinny teenager. Also they had one hell of kick on them and would hurt if you didn't hold them right when you fired. We also had a few Bren guns as well and yes they were even heavier especially when you were loaded up with ammo.

[Flibb]

Ive shot a .303 with modern target ammo, its suprising how little recoil it produced. One of the best priced long range military rifles at the moment is a Sako TRG, weve several in our club and I am always suprised how well they shoot with standard ammo. My current favourite rifle is a RPA Interceptor, geat all all bar the longest of ranges, but still usable in the field. Just wish I had the cash to buy one