Channel 5 atm

[Knoxville]

They're digging up a spitfire from underneath london live, sittin here watchin it and its pretty interesting

[turkster]

Ah Aviation archaeology, nice
You say its live? Is that the one that went down in WW2. It just buried itself so deep that they just built the road back over it instead of pulling it out at the time?

Shame I have'nt got Channel 5

[Jonny M]

Shame I have'nt got Channel 5

Bet that's the first time you've said that

[Bindibadgi]

Bet that's the first time you've said that

You mean you didnt used to watch friday night movies(porn)?

[Knoxville]

I think so yeah, he went down ramming a german plane over buckingham palace because he was out of ammo.

They're digging up a hurricane somewhere else aswell at the same time.

[turkster]

I think thats the spitfre I'm thinking of.

That wouldnt be a hurricane in a field in France would it?

There was a program on Channel 4 a few months ago about aviation archaeology and they were diggin up a hurricane in france. It was pretty cool actually. The guys doing the digging (pretty heavy handed by normal archaeological standards ) could recognise bullet casings and littl bits of corroded aluminium and say what plane they had come from. They also had the guy who had actually bailed out of the hurricane. He had been hit in the shoulder by a bullet that had gone through a gap in the armour plate behind his back. They managed to dig up this armour plate from his hurricane and it had lots of marks from the bullets that had hit it when he was brought down. Interesting stuff.

[Nick]

Yeah, its Ray Holmes' Hurricane.

He'd ran out of ammo in various attacks, saw the Do17 and decided to ram it.

He severed the bombers tail from the main body, it brok up in the air, spraying its bombs around, starting several grass fires in the grounds of Bucky Pal.

Holmes' then lost control of his fighter and bailed out. He narrowly missed some high tension wires over a railway line, then landed on the roof of a house. His parachute collapsed as soon as he touched down and he started to slide off the roof. He says " I thought it a stupid way to die... surviving ramming another plane in a dogfight, but breaking my neck falling off a three story building!"

Luckily, his parachute caught just before he hit the ground and he ended up dangling with his legs inside a dustbin. He released his harness and was taken to see the remain of his plane which had dived almost vertically into the ground at over 500mph.

He was taken back to his station after being entertained by the army, who were very amused by the fact that in the rush to scramble he still had his pyjamas on under his flying suit.

His deed, and other similar rammings, led the Luftwaffe pilots to believe that the RAF had plenty of planes in reserve and had ordered their pilots to ram enemy aircraft if possible. This belief and the fact that they faced 300plus RAF fighters in one raid on September 15th led to Hitler postponing Operation Sealion as it was clear that the RAF had not been beaten.

ooh blimey... I have gone on there... sorry, Battle of Britain stuff is a passion of mine...

[turkster]

Very good Deckard I just looked it up in a little Shire book I have on aviation archaeololgy (Guy de la Bedoyere).

Apparently his plane was a Hurricane 1 P2725 and went down on Buckingham Palace Road on 15th Sept 1940. Parts of the wreckage were gathered up and presented to Churchill at the time. The crash was actually captured on film . Although it says that due to it's location the plane has defied any attempts at excavation over all these years.

I dont know if this is the one Knoxville is talking about though because he said a Spitfire?

[Knoxville]

Aye it is that hurricane, i've got the 2 sites confused.

[Nick]

Yeah, Holmes is a Hurri.

I have his account somewhere, plus photos of the Do17 as ir falls to earth. In one of them you can just make out Holmes' Hurri diving away out of control.

I'll tyr and scan them in tomz for you guys to look at... pretty good stuff, including shots of the aftermath. One of the tail sections of the Dornier whipped along a road, just missing a girl as she lent out to see what the noise was. It whipped up over the roof and landed on a pub.

I thoroughly reccomend a book called "Battle of Britain Day", which focuses on all the action on Sept 15th... There's some superb stuff in there, personal accounts from pilots on both sides, as well as eye witness stuff, like a young boy watching a Spit chase down a 109, watching them both hurtle directly along the ground towards him... then realise that he is in the overshoot area of the Spits guns as bullets start whanging around the place all around him!

[turkster]

Cool.

Looking forward to the photos

[Neil Washbrook]

They showed the film footage of the Dornier coming down on the concorse of Victoria station and the Hurricane going in as well. Apparently they were the only two planes to actually crash in the City of London - or at least thats what the idiot presenters said

[Hat]

Must admit "idiot presenters" summed it up rather nicely.

Trying desparetly to glam the whole thing up and asking leading questions the whole of the time... I was quite pleased when the pilot of that spit 14 that was shot down by a FW in Germany didint answer the question as they wanted. They were trying to get him to say that the Spit was THE plane that decided the course of the war... and he said - "well actually it was the P51's" Trouble is they werent diggin one of those up!

Watched it for a bit.. then felt kind of embarrased about the whole thing and went off to shoot some 109s down in me spit 9

[Nick]

Yeah, I watched a little of it then it became apparent that it was going to dumb down the whole of the air war.... kinda like an arcade version of a good factual documentary... Watched a superb doco on the Mighty 8th on Discovery Wings instead. The numbers involved are staggering.. 28,000 arimen killed, 25,000 more wounded and 26,000 taken prisoner..

[r1zeek]

Yeah, i watched Spitfire Ace on one of the Discovery channels (theres so many nowadays) and they showed the bit of film where he took of the tail of the Dornier. Spitfire was a pretty good show, shame it's finished now. Anybody watch the Battle Of Britain 60th Anneversary on Discovery Wings the other day?

[Zak33]

Must admit "idiot presenters" summed it up rather nicely.

... They were trying to get him to say that the Spit was THE plane that decided the course of the war... and he said - "well actually it was the P51's" Trouble is they werent diggin one of those up!

Watched it for a bit.. then felt kind of embarrased about the whole thing and went off to shoot some 109s down in me spit 9

I whole heartedly agree....that old boy didnt wanna be there....

I'll bet you a pound to pinch of snuff that his FAMILY wanted him there....and the TV wanted him there....

he was immeasurably braver, more devoted to his country, and more modest that any silly arse TV prester or Porducer will ever understand.

I felt so sorry for him....I was close to tears Looked across the sofa to see the new MA_rlin, Rias with a tear on her cheek....

she now understands a single glimpse of the terror and horror of war, and seeing the old chap suffering infront of the TV screen hit her hard like it did me. Bet you any money he'd rather have been up there doing it all again RATHER than being interviewed by the TV fools