Dogfighting

I know you guys must get this all the time but i've found it seriously difficult to dogfight on IL2:FB. Bin playing it awhile and i got all my bombing and ground attacks down (even stuka dive bombs) but when i'm in any kind of dogfighting plane (Yak 9, Spit 9, FW 190, BF 109 etc) i always get shot down. It's hard enough for me to find a dogfight and when i do, I either find im shooting my own team or I get out dogged and either run out of ammo or get shot down. I have practiced dog fights with my friend on LAN but the only way we can see each other is to have nav. lights on and we are the only people so I know im shooting down enemy.
Would be very greatful if you guys could give me some tips and advise.
Cheers

Always a difficult one to get to grips with, loads of different things influenece the ebb and flow of a DF. Try using externals on and pressing F6 this will padlock your plane against the enemy plane. Then switch back internal when the DF starts. Other than that practise ainning in quick mission builder, put up friendly bombers (they wont shoot back) and keep going at them till you get to grips with it...Also use Icons on for distances dont even bother shooting at 0.35 or over get in close real close then when you think you are to close get closer still!! Most of my kills come at 0.10 to 0.20 and rarely over 0.25

Hmm, well i'm flying on realistic at the moment but i need the mini map path at the moment. I'm ok at the shooting, i can shoot down my mate really easy but it's when there are lots of people about i end up getting lost or shot down. I'll try that with Icons, sounds quite useful

We always fly full real as well :) The icons are very good to let you get to know the plane size in gunsight and how far away it is when icons are off. You will be suprise just how close you hav to be and how far away planes are when to you they appear close :)

Yeah, thats my main problem, one time me and my friend were trying to catch these bomber (not really sure what they were) and they looked close but then i realised they were too far off. We both throttled up and we stuck on our ethanol injection systems (well, the equivalent for the FW 190 F8) and we were getting close and by the time i realised they were getting way too close we both over shot, my mate got killed and i lost my ailerons because of one of the turret gunners. And it took us half an hour to find them bombers!
Think i'd be able to have a practice with you guys sometime when your not playing VWF or VEF? I talked to stoo last week on HL just as that new patch came out.

if you are catching them fast....CLIMB....nose up....keep climbing until your speed is sod all....then gentle put her over on her wing so you can see them...and droplike a hawk from above...

its called a hi yo yo...works best if they are turning gently (which they will do if you shoot at 'em ;) ) and you can watch them as you climb....out of your window...then turn gently to follow them, and dive.....shoot as you pass under them....then nose up and over the top :)

if you're in a FW190 you're in the right plane but dont try to turn hard....it wont...

try same again in Lagg3 or better Hurricane MK2 C...that has 4 canons......and those babies HURT :)

With closing speeds been so quick in this game you get approx 10 to 15 seconds in a rear attack when coming on them fast. If approaching from head on (the
best way to attack bombers) its more like 5 seconds :) Just page me when your in HL\ and if not VEFing Ill happily throw up a server :)

your nickname is [MA]Dak[GSV] in Hl or is it just MA_Dak?
Yeah, Il2 can be a seriously long game to play sometimes. With the average Co Op level taking at least 30 minutes you can waste your day away very quickly. Also, alot of the time when i'm closing on bombers or anything unaware of my pursuit, by the time i catch them i'm usually at the wrong angle so they end up heading away from me in an odd sorta 45 degree angle and i cant turn fast enough.
Lol, it can be quite crazy on take off if bots are lined up infront of you because you can't see over the top of your engine (until you lift your tail wheel up) and so I usually crash into them if i'm not careful. Figured out a way of seeing infront now, i won't bore you with the details.
And cheers Zak :rockon:
i'm gonna have to try that when i get back in england (im on hol at the moment :D), sounds quite complicated in writing but i'm sure it aint that hard, i hope

Quote:

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Originally Posted by r1zeek

Lol, it can be quite crazy on take off if bots are lined up infront of you because you can't see over the top of your engine (until you lift your tail wheel up)

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hold down B (brakes) TWIST the rudder one way or the other...gently bring up throttle so the air rushes across your tail fin...you'll TWIST ....power down...then let go of B....look out of side window.

Ta daaaaa :)

Its how real pilots did it too :)

We have to do it in VEF every night....or we kill our mates :(

I learned the hard way....or rather...my MATES learned the hard way when I ran into them all with a load of rockets and bombs on board my IL2 :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by r1zeek

Lol, it can be quite crazy on take off if bots are lined up infront of you because you can't see over the top of your engine (until you lift your tail wheel up) and so I usually crash into them if i'm not careful. Figured out a way of seeing infront now, i won't bore you with the details.

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Yeah, i already learned that, pretty much the hard way aswell :)
It'll be good to have a game with any of you, maybe you can teach me some more highly skilled manouvers?
Cheers for the help guys :iloveyou: (in a non sexual way ofcourse :D )

If ya wants manouvres.... the J8A (Gladiator, 1937 bi-plane) is the kiddie.. no fear.. it will out turn ANYTHING.. and you can do some silly stuff at shockingly low speeds in it. It hits pretty hard too, considering it's only got 4 .303 Brownings on board...

I tried that out once, couldnt get to the grass runway in time (it took ages to turn onto the runway) so i knackered my engine a couple of times then managed to get it airbourne, was a pretty good flyer, got put of it though because my mate kept shooting me down in an He-162 so I had no chance. I could fly the I-153 (i think thats it's name) and that was a very powerful plane, loved it.
I'll have another go with the J8A though, if it's as good as you say it is
What do you guys think of the Fockke Wulf 190 Mistel, I've been flown it more than a few times on small dog fight missions with my mate and it seems good, very very fast though, it goes up to like 400 km/h just flying level.

Hyperlobby tag is MA_Dak :)

Re your comments on angles that is THE biggest secret in Dogfighting...Let me explain briefly

You can potentially hit a plane from most angles, whilst it may be stating the bleedin obvious you must always take these things into account.

1. Your plane is a gun platform no more no less, its your toll to enable you to bring your guns to bear on the target before his come to bear on you.

2. You gun platform is moving

3. Your target is moving

4. Your bullets leave the guns at a certain velocity which is reduced the longer they are in the air.

5. Your bullets are effected by gravity the further they go the more they drop, lighter bullets ie .303 or .50mm rounds will drop less that a 20mm cannon shell.

6. All planes have thier guns set to a convergence distance (this is the point at which the bullets meet in a concentrated pattern) for example mine are set to between 150m and 240m (0.15 to 0.24 in icons games) depending on the mission. Therefore that distance is your ideal firing distance.

In summary its all about putting the maximum amount of lead into the target by aimming WHERE the target is going to be. Mess around with firing at planes from all these angles you are struggling with for example I know that If im have a 109 crossing my sights at say 60 degrees at a range of 0.30 I must aim 4 plane lengths in front and the width of a plane higher to stand a chance.

One other point worth noting a plane presents its SMALLEST profile when you are dead behind it. Therefore thats often the most difficult shot, as soon as it pulls up, left , right or down it presents a larger target area.

Alright i'll add ya next time im on HL
I get what ya saying, and your right, some of it is bleedin' obvious! :)
I left my convergence distance on 500m for cannons and MGs because i didn't really know distance ingame. Reckon i should set them between 150 and 240 like you or is it pilot preference?
Had a look at the tutorials about the aerial gunnery, kinda hard to digest at first but I know what you're getting at, kinda like clay pigeon shooting, you gotta aim a certain distance ahead of your target because your shot has to travel to the target. Am i following you right?

HL Tag MA_Hat

Anytime.... always happy to teach what I know and learn a little bit more each time.

Dogfighting is a mixture of

- SA ( Situational Awareness)
- and the balance of Energy and Angle
- Gunnery

Take them one step at a time.. I shall show ya the path I have followed

S!

you NEED t be able to look around...even while flying..its the hardest thing