I've been experimenting with all the Biplanes over the weekend and i've noticed something weird. Whenever you fly a biplane upside down (mostly the I-153) or go into a dive (sorta 45 - 50 degrees) the engine stutters, makes my whole plane jolt and then it spins down and if I stay in a dive or upside down long enough it will completley stop.
I'm guessing it is something todo with the way biplanes work, but I just want a logical explanation for it.
Cheers
Its the same with Hurricane Mk1s. The earlier planes had carbs on the engines with float valves rather than the direct fuel injection of later model planes. The 109 for example always had direct injection but the Mk1 Spitfire did not, hence a 109s favoured escape route was to push the nose down and dive a move the Spit couldnt match as the Gs would stave the engine of fuel.
Just another example of how great this game is
Ohh, how true.Originally Posted by [MA]Dak[GSV]
Just another example of how great this game is
Very Realistic, it's just the little things that make the game isn't it? (well, its sorta a little thing
The I-153 is a crazy plane, I was playing my mate and I could out turn him and he was in a Zero, I thought they were much more manouverable?!
The Zero was more manouverable than planes of similar speeds, but up against a biplane, which goes MUCH slower, the Zero's turn radius means an I-153 will always turn inside it.
That's why throttling back a bit in a tight turn means you can get inside someone else. Don't heave too hard on the stick as you'll bleed off too much airspeed... only pull back as hard as you need to keep the guy in the same position, relative to you, then ease back a little more to bring your guns on to him.
Of course, now we're talking about deflection shooting, which is a true art to master...
I'm not bad with it if the target isn't dodging and weaving, like if im attacking a bomber, but I wasn't bad against my m8 in the Zero, managed to flame his engine twice with deflection.
Another question (if you dont mind
Why is a biplane more stable than something like a Zero, or equivalent. I could pull some excellent turns at about 90-80 degrees and not stall whereas in a zero it stalls when turning like that. Why is the biplane more stable (sorry, not terribly clued up on plane engines and the workings) I thought it would be worst because of old technology?
Cheers for the answers
Biplaines have two wings, so they generate massive amounts of lift compare to monoplanes... the cost of this is drag, which is why monoplanes are faster (that and more powerful engines, but you get the idea)
Cos biplanes fly slower (due to poor engines and drag), they have high 'angle of attack stall angles'.
This is a bit tricky to explain, but I'll try.
Imagine a single wing straight on to the airflow, so the wing and air are both horizontal. Air flows smoothly over and under the wing. Now, turn the wing so it is angles slightly up comnpared to the airflow, so the wing is at, say, 15 degrees and the air is still flowing horizontaly... you start to get turbulence at the leading edge and traling edge of the wing.... tilt the wing more and the turbulence becmoes greater, disrupting the smooth flow of air over the wing and reducing the lift... get the wing to a certain angle and the wing won't generate lift and it'll stall.
This is known as a 'high speed stall'. Basically, the wing has changed its comparative angle to the airflow too rapidly and stopped generating lift.
In a biplane the wings tend to be of a deeper 'chord' (wing depth) with a more pronounced curve. This gives them a higher angle of attack than a thinner, narrower chorded wing such as found on monoplanes.
Though deep wing chords give good flight characteristics, they're no good for high speed flight, hence the narrow wings of monoplane fighters.
Also the overall speed affects what angel the wing will stall at. The higher the speed, the lower the angle of attack before stalling. This is because turbulence devlops more easily at higher speeds... try is yourself by swishing your arm through a full bath... do it slowly and you'll barely make a ripple... do it fast and you'll cause a load of waves.
(of course, water isnm't compresible like air is, but some fluid dynamics can be used to illustrate gases quite nicely)
It's worth mentioning the load factor here, a consideration when turning. The load factor increases when a plane turns. So the harder the bank, the greater the load factor. As the load factor ('g') increases so does the stall airspeed, quite considerably. This is why you can stall at a high speed during a turn. It can be a real pain in the arse during dogfights until you get a feel for the limitations and start to think ahead of them.
The same thing can occur when pulling out of a dive. As you pull back the stick the load factor increases, as does the stalling speed.
Pulling back on the stick too abruptly in fast level flight will also have the same effect.
'Make mine a Spitfire, Landlord!'
I think I know what your getting at, a little bit confusing but I'm with ya.
Do you have any links to engagement tactics because the one you gave in the stickie didn't work?
Biplanes do not generate more lift compared to monoplanes perse. They have the benefit of increasing the wing area for a given span hence decreasing the wing loading. This lower wing loading gives various benefits.
>It gives an aircraft higher manoeuvrability,
>Allows quicker take off compared to a similar monoplane
>Reduces structural loads on the structure allowing the materials of the time.
There are major draw backs however.
>The bracing wires and struts required between the upper and lowering wings to provide stiffness produces great drag.
>The lift is not with two wings due to interference between the upper wings lower surface and the lower sings upper surface. This has the knock on effect of reducing the performance of the aircraft.
Stalls are very odd things. A stall where the air flowing above the upper surface separates and lift reduces generally occurs at low speeds and is called a low speed stall. High speed stalls known as "shock stalls" occur at high speeds nearing the speed of sound where the accelerating flow on the upper surface reaches mach and a shockwave occurs. This can cause flow separation also resulting in the loss of lift. This typically happens at lower AoA to a low speed stall.
The nature of stalls varies from aircraft to aircraft. Some will give you warning to a stall. The hurricane for example would judder near the stall. A spitfire however due to its elliptical wing would just stall with no warning. They have one thing in common though. All aerofoils and hence aircraft will stall at 15 AoA (angle of attack) regardless of velocity.
Pulling tight in a turn will bring you out of the sky in one of two ways.
> It causes a stall because you pass your critical AoA, or
> You loose too much velocity and your wings can not produce the lift at the combination of velocity and AoA.
Hope that’s understandable
Not actually played this game so I think I may have to get hold of a copy of it cos it sounds a highly accurate simulation.
Last edited by Efaill; 13-06-2004 at 03:44 PM.
A bit more understandable, rather complicated though
Thats the effects of an Aeronautical engineering degree on me
lol, cheers, Efaill.... I was just trying to keep it simple!
Aero degree, huh? Guess there'll be a few more threads we could do with some expert knowledge on in here!
I don't know where it all came from really. Wasn't going to come out that long. Once I started though it just kept rolling out
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