Bethesda RPG games boring?

[rob4001]

With the risk of being flamed this is just my opinion of course there are many fans of Bethesda games Oblivion /fallout 3/Skyrim.

I played the first 2 but couldn't get into them at all to be honest. I found walking around the worlds quite boring and pacing very slow. I know there a lots of people that enjoy discovering the open worlds that were created but I just find the pacing too slow. I actual prefer my RPG to have tight story and more linear. I prefer bioware's style Mass effect etc to RPG I know some haven't been that great but most are of a high standard. Does anyone agree or mostly disagree?

[jim]

No, don't agree with you. I love ME2, probably more so than most... I think it's the best game I've ever played.

But I still think that Oblivion/Fallout are fantastic games (haven't played Skyrim). The one thing I would say, and this is mainly true for Oblivion, is that I find the central quest pretty dull. I like going around, exploring, finding new places, meeting odd people and doing unlikely quests for them. The central quest is just loads of fighting, and the combat system in Oblivion is pretty rubbish.

In ME2 on the other hand, the central quest is the whole point, and the side quests are terrible (imo). Going round scanning several hundred planets to find that one of them had a downed satellite and 8 batarians to kill was pretty pathetic.

In that respect, it depends what you like. If you like shooters, you'll probably prefer ME2. If you like adventures, you'll probably prefer Oblivion/Fallout. I don't really think it's reasonable to compare the two, since they're completely different takes on the RPG concept.

If you reduce it to that concept, and say that you as a person just don't particularly enjoy adventure-esque RPGs, then it's not all surprising. If you want the game to be "more linear", then wandering for several hours in the countryside before eventually finding yourself in the middle of a town where everybody is invisible isn't going to appeal to you. To others, it would.

I seem to remember one guy claiming that he spent ages just going round collecting plants and making potions, completely ignoring the combat/quests element of it for a very long time. Others will play Oblivion as a vampire with thieving tendencies, a brainless oaf with a large battleaxe who can't read, or as an angry mage, hellbent on getting revenge on the mage's guild.

You couldn't do something like that in Mass Effect, where the gameplay options are "save galaxy and punch people in face", "save galaxy and do nothing of note" or "save galaxy and fetch old lady's shopping for her".

[wasabi]

Somewhere in between is the sweet spot IMO. For me, Deus Ex HR got it pretty much right. Skyrim can be a bit too slow and statistic driven for my tastes (i.e. all the worst of Dungeons and Dragons level up nerdyness - wander round find stuff kill easy stuff to buy training, level up again - rinse repeat.). On the other hand I found the Mass Effect games massively too scripted. Corridor shooter linearity meets RPG.

Preferred Oblivion's central story to Skyrim's though. I stuck to Oblivion's main story for a long time - abandoned the dragon stuff quickly in Skyrim.

[Hicks12]

Pretty much snootyjim summed it up, for me ME2 was absolutely epic and infact it was the first RPG that i completed 3 times!? (yes no idea why... i really enjoyed it haha).

If you want a more linear RPG then i definitely recommend the witcher 1 and 2, one was epic and 2 was pretty damn solid and probably better ! Graphics are lush aswell .

I do love all types of RPG really, Skyrim has had to take a back seat with university but i plan on pumping crap loads of hours back into it once im done for christmas.

[redddraggon]

I've got ME and ME2 on the PC, and haven't more than two hours into either of them because they are so boring, dull and linear.

Oblivion, Fallout 3, and New Vegas, have been done to completion at least once and Skyrim is well on it's way to completion.

I wouldn't say I'm an RPG fan, the only ones I've enjoyed and so put more than a few hours in have been the Bethesda games, and Zelda Ocarina of Time back on the N64.

[kalniel]

With the risk of being flamed this is just my opinion of course there are many fans of Bethesda games Oblivion /fallout 3/Skyrim.

I played the first 2 but couldn't get into them at all to be honest. I found walking around the worlds quite boring and pacing very slow. I know there a lots of people that enjoy discovering the open worlds that were created but I just find the pacing too slow. I actual prefer my RPG to have tight story and more linear. I prefer bioware's style Mass effect etc to RPG I know some haven't been that great but most are of a high standard. Does anyone agree or mostly disagree?

I actually like a variety of styles of game. The open world ones are my favourite, but they do require imagination and in the role playing games, some role playing They're my own little virtual universe for creating my stories and I love them to bits.

But I can only have one or two on the go because of the time sink/effort. So I also enjoy linear games that allow me to experience a story rather than create a story. Bioware games fall into this category, as do the superior CDProjekt Red games (The Witcher series). I can play more of them, because they don't require much concentration/time, and they're also over fairly quickly. Problem is, once they're done, they're largely done, while open world games I can come back to and continue my other life when ever I like - they're more like a flight sim game etc even!

[shaithis]

Personally, I find all single-player RPG games to be exceedingly dull.

If I am playing solo, I like action thick and fast.

For me the pace and scale of an RPG can only be done justice when played with others.

[Zadock]

I actually like a variety of styles of game. The open world ones are my favourite, but they do require imagination and in the role playing games, some role playing They're my own little virtual universe for creating my stories and I love them to bits.

But I can only have one or two on the go because of the time sink/effort. So I also enjoy linear games that allow me to experience a story rather than create a story. Bioware games fall into this category, as do the superior CDProjekt Red games (The Witcher series). I can play more of them, because they don't require much concentration/time, and they're also over fairly quickly. Problem is, once they're done, they're largely done, while open world games I can come back to and continue my other life when ever I like - they're more like a flight sim game etc even!

Imagination. This was my first thought in response to the OP as well. Bethesda's games are very good, I love them but they do rely to a certain degree on what the player brings to the game.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The main issue with Fallout 3 and Fallout:New Vegas is the scale. There is so much to explore and so many side missions. After a while it can get a bit OTT.

[Digerati]

Personally, I find all single-player RPG games to be exceedingly dull.

If I am playing solo, I like action thick and fast.

For me the pace and scale of an RPG can only be done justice when played with others.

You gonna be picking up Diablo 3, then?

On topic, I'm a fan of all things RPG... whether it's a linear story based game (Mass Effect, The Witcher etc), MMO or open world games such as The Elder Scrolls.

Elder Scrolls sits at the top of list for me, though. It's the slow pacing, openness which I find most attractive. Being able to do whatever you want, whether that's just completely ignoring the main quest and simply explore caves, collecting loot and enjoying the landscape or make up your own quest by going out and collecting every book in the game to stack on your virtual shelves, is what really draws me into the series. I even create house rules for myself such as no fast travelling.

I'm aware that it's fairly pointless at the end of the day. I don't have anyone to share my achievements with (apart from showing off to the, rather unimpressed, girlfriend my awesome collection of digital literature, collected from all corners of the land) and you also do not really get any in-game reward for such activities - but it's the freedom of choice which keeps me playing hour after hour.

At any one point I have 2 types of games which I play. One is the fast paced, adrenaline fueled MP experiance with mates (Left 4 Dead, Battlefield etc). And one is for when I can relax, switch off and sink into a world the same way that one would want to with a really good book. Elder Scrolls fits the bill perfectly.

[Million]

The main issue with Fallout 3 and Fallout:New Vegas is the scale. There is so much to explore and so many side missions. After a while it can get a bit OTT.

Very true. I played New Vegas for hours and eventually just petered out - I love the scope, the concept, but you have to be dedicated to get the most from it. For 'an hour every few days' sort of gamer it's not intense enough

[Pob255]

I tried to post a reply to this thread twice at work but my browser kept crashing half way through.

SootyJim and kalniel have summed it up very well.

These are not linear plot driven rpg's like final fantasy, you're not taking a back seat in the character development.
This is not really a bad thing or a good thing it's a different thing, it requires a different mind set and will appeal to different people.

What I like about them is that the games are about the world and the multiple stories in it, not a single persons or groups story.
And that there's so much to do (not just menu and stat crunching) that the main story line probably takes up about 10-15% of the total.
The other thing I love about them is the level of freedom over my character, if I want to play as evil conniving misogynistic scum bag I can, if I want to be some holy goody two shoes yet xenophobic paladin out to save the world for the righteous I can.
Yes the main story ends up weaker but that down to the shear complexity of it, the more choices and freedom you give the player the harder it becomes to keep the story flowing.

Actually one thing I do tend to prefer is slightly less freedom, I know alot of people complain about invisible walls and such when you give the player an open world but restrict them to a zone within it, and don't allow them out to the next area until they've performed certain tasks but it does allow for a tighter story line while still allowing a degree of freedom.

[Zak33]

this is, frankly, a superb thread.

It starts with a brilliant and simple question and a debate is posed, well worded and not aggresive. It BEGS for replies...

and then it GETS brilliant replies from people with intellect and balanced views. And good experience too.

It also happens to totally fit in with Ferral and my own's recent, and lengthy, text discussions, resulting in a 1 hour telephone training session while he guided me through the intricacies of Obvlivion.

I am still struggling with it.. and it's not the games fault. It's down to my current life style, work load, and real life.

10 years ago.. this would have dragged my sorry sack-cloth loving, chain-mail covered ass in and spanked it. I would have lived and breathed Oblivion.

But in 2011, I have no time to spend on it. It takes too long. AND YET.. I see the brilliance. It's like a great book that I just can't get "into" and yet I KNOW I should.

Right now I'm into a much simpler, more linear game .. The First Templar.

From "outside looking into my head" as a long long term games.. Templar is NO WHERE as good as Oblivion.... but it IS BETTER for me, in 2011.

Great thread.. just great.

[Pob255]

I know what you mean Zak, I'd not played the elder scroll games before Fallout3, which I fully loved.

I since got morrowind which I just couldn't get into, I've tried a couple of times it's just a little too open, directions to go somewhere are just verbally given and often not that clear so it's very easy to get lost as a first time player.

I've now picked up Oblivion and it really does show the progression between the games in terms of interface and controls.

I'm getting on better with Oblivion than with morrowind but it's not as slick as fallout3, I've never been a big fan of skill based leveling systems, and the lock pick mini game is not as good.

I'm not sure how many of the changes in system for Fallout3 where there to follow the system of the original games and what has been taken over into skyrim (I know the FO3 lockpick mini game was)

And I do agree with you Zak, these are real time sink games you cannot just put in a hour here and there you have to sit down and play them in big chunks.

Personally I go for other types of game (ie not rpg) if I want a short game of something, if I want story I'll watch a film/tv or read a book.
Although I get most of my story fix from rather large amount of audio books and bbc radio, I must get through about 20 hours a week of audio.

[redddraggon]

I played 45mins on Skyrim this morning before going to the office, and I made very little progression, but I enjoyed it.

I guess that I'm kind of person who'll watch all of a Grand Tour in cycling, and enjoy test matches in Cricket over ODI or 20-20. I like the long game, the relatively slow progression, where nearly every choice is yours to make.

I can't stand linearity in games - I hate the likes of COD but the old Operation Flashpoint, and now Arma (well if it wasn't such a buggy mess) are just my kind of stuff.

[melon]

Lets be honest whether open or not - all rgs like mmorpgs have pretty much dried up because the format is the same..

There is no comparison to real rpg really at all in terms of options and all the little things that make it unpredictable and fun , its not like you can make deal to bypass all the pointless errand tasks in any of these games or some shortcut and that alone turns me off because its becomes just the same task repeated over and over again.

Stories can help but its still very predictaoble .

I want a world where I can walk into a town and bribe someone to do all the ****ty tasks while i pay off someone else to kill him so i dont have to pay , and then blackmail that guy into becoming my
henchman - who I will later turn in for a bigger reward

Or maybe just pimp out some bisexual doppelganger assassins to fund my time traveling airship the I need to use in order to avert my future death...

oh well..

m