Diablo 3 - It's here! (Unboxing pics)

[Trash Man]

Completed Act1 Inferno last night on my barbarian. Act2 is a noticeable step up - those sodding flies!

Good going Was that solo? What build are you using?

I'm currently using http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...PTV!bVe!YccZac and it seems to work really well. I swap out Cleave for Frenzy and Earthquake for Battlerage on bosses. I still need to get some better gear though, although I'm level 60 now a lot of my gear is still in the high 40's. Everything on the AH is so bloody expensive though

[Bagnaj97]

Good going Was that solo? What build are you using?

Yup, all solo, currently using http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...PiV!UVe!cZcZac. Barbarians are very gear dependant and a lot of people don't seem to realise that you *need* to stack resists as well as str/vit/def. I've not properly started on Act2 yet, just farming the end of Act1 to get 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor and then slap the boss.

The way to use the AH is to search for all armor types, minimum level 60, max buyout of something you don't mind wasting (~80k is what I use), and All Resists, Vitality and your primary stat (in my case Str) at 1.
If you keep hitting search it caches, so change a value by 1 each time to force it to refresh. You'll then find items that appear with 3 three most important stats and underpriced. If something appears with 2d duration left then select it and hit buyout - inspect it afterwards to see if it's an upgrade. Stuff that appears like this sells in a matter of seconds - don't hesitate! If it's not an upgrade you can nearly always flip it for a profit, but if not... well you did set the buyout to something you can afford to lose didn't you?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Using something like the AH just takes all the fun out of the game IMHO,especially with a game like Diablo 3 which is about the loot you can get. Part of the fun of the recent Fallout games and Borderlands,was getting that rare weapon.

People make an excuse,that the blacksmith and drops are not enough,so they use the AH instead. You are basically just waiting for other people to do your work for you,especially since you can pay money for items if you CBA to accumulate enough resources,ie,pay to win.

The worst thing is because loads of people will be using it,in the end you will probably have to so eventually if more content is released.

[GoodApollo]

The beta was sweet, haven't got round to getting the full game yet

[Mama Sumae]

Using something like the AH just takes all the fun out of the game IMHO,especially with a game like Diablo 3 which is about the loot you can get. Part of the fun of the recent Fallout games and Borderlands,was getting that rare weapon.

People make an excuse,that the blacksmith and drops are not enough,so they use the AH instead. You are basically just waiting for other people to do your work for you,especially since you can pay money for items if you CBA to accumulate enough resources,ie,pay to win.

The worst thing is because loads of people will be using it,in the end you will probably have to so eventually if more content is released.

I haven't played it myself but one of the consistent criticisms I have read/heard regarding Diablo 3 is the particularly unrewarding loot/drop system for a game of this type. Even if that's not true my immediate thought was that it should really come at no surprise given the introduction of a AH/RMAH, after all it would/will always be in Blizzards best financial interest to create demand for the RMAH.

Furthermore I also found it curious how everyone disregarded the online only nature of the game mostly as a DRM feature, the complete lack of player control over the game and how they play it will also enable Blizzard to use future updates/content to reinforce demand for the RMAH if they so desire. People have paid a considerable amount of money for game that is modeled much like a free to play, the only real question left is how far will Blizzard push/milk it.

Judging by WOW standards I would say a lot, hence yet another reason why I didn't go anywhere near Diablo 3.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I haven't played it myself but one of the consistent criticisms I have read/heard regarding Diablo 3 is the particularly unrewarding loot/drop system for a game of this type. Even if that's not true my immediate thought was that it should really come at no surprise given the introduction of a AH/RMAH, after all it would/will always be in Blizzards best financial interest to create demand for the RMAH.

Furthermore I also found it curious how everyone disregarded the online only nature of the game mostly as a DRM feature, the complete lack of player control over the game and how they play it will also enable Blizzard to use future updates/content to reinforce demand for the RMAH if they so desire. People have paid a considerable amount of money for game that is modeled much like a free to play, the only real question left is how far will Blizzard push/milk it.

Judging by WOW standards I would say a lot, hence yet another reason why I didn't go anywhere near Diablo 3.

Well,I don't like the online nature too,but is has been pointed out to me its more like a multiplayer game with a single player option. Still,its a right bummer of you are away from a reliable internet connection or there are connection or server issues(as seen recently).

TBH,though I think there is enough hours in the single player playthroughs to make the £30 cost of the game decent value(still a bit too much for me ATM since I bought ME3 and KSP recently),and of course the playthroughs with mates adds to this.

[kalniel]

I haven't played it myself but one of the consistent criticisms I have read/heard regarding Diablo 3 is the particularly unrewarding loot/drop system for a game of this type. Even if that's not true my immediate thought was that it should really come at no surprise given the introduction of a AH/RMAH, after all it would/will always be in Blizzards best financial interest to create demand for the RMAH.

It's not like that IMHO. The reason loot is unrewarding is that it's not actually got all that much useful variability. The magic effects are especially formulaic and the character strengths lead you to concentrating on basically one or two types of magic effects and ignoring the rest. The AH doesn't change this at all and there's no more variation in magic effects to be found there. The only thing that differs is the magnitude. Basically the game is designed to be farmed if you want to have a decent chance at the highest difficulty levels, because the good items only drop rarely.

If you don't want to spend the time farming, then you can buy the rare items in the AH, because that will naturally concentrate the top items. So just like in most things online you have the choice between time, or cost.

And because that exists with real world money on the black market for all online games, Blizzard might as well create a legitimate version because that will reduce the negative effects of criminalising trade.

Furthermore I also found it curious how everyone disregarded the online only nature of the game mostly as a DRM feature

Who is this everyone you are talking about? Even Blizzard said it wasn't a DRM feature, so anyone following the game should have realised it was more about controlling the experience/creating a proper item/trade audit trail.

[Mama Sumae]

The reason loot is unrewarding is that it's not actually got all that much useful variability. The magic effects are especially formulaic and the character strengths lead you to concentrating on basically one or two types of magic effects and ignoring the rest. The AH doesn't change this at all and there's no more variation in magic effects to be found there.

And as changes/new content that affects that variability is introduced how exactly will existing characters keep up?

My point was simple, considering Blizzard has a lot to gain from the RMAH its only natural that they will point players in that direction. The best way to do so is by controlling content (affecting gameplay), something they are completely free to do given the unnecessary choice to require the player to be online at all times.

And because that exists with real world money on the black market for all online games, Blizzard might as well create a legitimate version because that will reduce the negative effects of criminalising trade.

Farming/advertising bots wouldn't be a problem in D3 since players don't have to share a world like in wow and others MMOs, so wouldn't a legitimate market only serve to protect users who would otherwise resort to black markets? On the other hand it does that by exposing all players to a generalized paid market and its related issues (player competitiveness and so on).

If you don't want to spend the time farming, then you can buy the rare items in the AH, because that will naturally concentrate the top items. So just like in most things online you have the choice between time, or cost.

If you are happy to play a game that you have already paid for that sells achievement to the highest bidder then obviously D3 won't bother you, personally I find it rather counter-intuitive. Furthermore if the mechanics of a game are so unpleasant/time consuming that I would rather spend money than go through them I would much rather avoid the game completely.

ATM Diablo 3 has a single player campaign that must be played online and a multiplayer that's is pretty much like a Free to Play with a price tag. Personally as a massive Diablo fan (and as CAT-THE-FIFTH also said) the plot playthrough alone should justify the game price, but on the other hand I wouldn't accept this sort of product/behaviour with any other game series.

[kalniel]

And as changes/new content that affects that variability is introduced how exactly will existing characters keep up?

The same as they always have with patches in the past. The AH doesn't change any of this.

My point was simple, considering Blizzard has a lot to gain from the RMAH its only natural that they will point players in that direction. The best way to do so is by controlling content (affecting gameplay), something they are completely free to do given the unnecessary choice to require the player to be online at all times.

Yes they control the content. They can either be good, or evil. Nice thing is we get to see what happens and judge them accordingly - they're not stupid - if they want future sales of new games they won't be evil.

Farming/advertising bots wouldn't be a problem in D3 since players don't have to share a world like in wow and others MMOs

Sharing worlds isn't the problem with criminal account stealing to get goods onto the black market.

, so wouldn't a legitimate market only serve to protect users who would otherwise resort to black markets?

It enables goods to go on the market legitimately, thus should encourage people to willingly put goods there, reducing the demand for illegitimately obtained goods and the grief caused by how they are obtained - the criminal lords aren't only competing against each other, they're now competing against all legitimate users of the AH as well. Not to mention the fact that people who might have otherwise turned to the black market purely out of frustration now have a legal avenue to go down, again reducing the demand on the black market and thus reducing the need to illegitimately obtain goods.

If you are happy to play a game that you have already paid for that sells achievement to the highest bidder then obviously D3 won't bother you, personally I find it rather counter-intuitive. Furthermore if the mechanics of a game are so unpleasant/time consuming that I would rather spend money than go through them I would much rather avoid the game completely.

None of those points follow on from the decision to have a RMAH. There is no selling of achievement to the highest bidder, you just have the choice, like in other online games, between spending the time (and fun) getting items, or taking the monetary short cut to obtaining them. This is really nothing new and there's nothing forcing you to pay for them. I presume you're against all free to play games and FB games etc. as well for the same reason?

Different people have different reasons for enjoying games and how the play them... and those things will change depending on what that person is doing etc. as well. So it's impossible to design a game like Diablo where no-one will want to bypass some of the farming - just look at Diablo 2. Given that's the case, when a game didn't have a RMAH, there's no reason to suspect that adding a RMAH to mitigate the ill effects is going to create that desire.

ATM Diablo 3 has a single player campaign that must be played online and a multiplayer that's is pretty much like a Free to Play with a price tag.

I agree with the first point, but multiplayer is nothing like a free to play - it's more like good old fashioned co-oping on a game like guantlett - you can just jump in and have a huge amount of fun with your friends/family. No need for any payments.

[Mama Sumae]

The same as they always have with patches in the past. The AH doesn't change any of this.

But it gives Blizzard a great chance to capitalize on them wouldn't you agree?

Yes they control the content. They can either be good, or evil. Nice thing is we get to see what happens and judge them accordingly - they're not stupid - if they want future sales of new games they won't be evil.

If evil, good and particularly its repercussions were only that straightforward

Sharing worlds isn't the problem with criminal account stealing to get goods onto the black market. It enables goods to go on the market legitimately, thus should encourage people to willingly put goods there, reducing the demand for illegitimately obtained goods and the grief caused by how they are obtained - the criminal lords aren't only competing against each other, they're now competing against all legitimate users of the AH as well. Not to mention the fact that people who might have otherwise turned to the black market purely out of frustration now have a legal avenue to go down, again reducing the demand on the black market and thus reducing the need to illegitimately obtain goods.

Black markets are mostly fuelled by farmers/exploits hence why gaming sweat shops are so common in some poorer countries, still we already had a large amount of accounts hacked in D3 and its items stolen which will also surely end up in the AH. While its true that illicit sellers now have to compete with the all the other players the opposite is also true, the customer base and ease of access to these sellers has increased considerably. Also its important to remember that a large part of Diablo is PvP, legally or otherwise the sale of items will unfairly tip the balance towards certain users. Fair and expected if we were speaking of a regular F2P but rather unacceptable from a paid game where user experience should be as fair and good as possible.

There is no selling of achievement to the highest bidder, you just have the choice, like in other online games, between spending the time (and fun) getting items, or taking the monetary short cut to obtaining them. This is really nothing new and there's nothing forcing you to pay for them.

So you believe normal players wont be in a disadvantage towards RMAH users?

I agree with the first point, but multiplayer is nothing like a free to play - it's more like good old fashioned co-oping on a game like guantlett - you can just jump in and have a huge amount of fun with your friends/family. No need for any payments.

Isn't PvP also a great part of Diablo? How will the balance between between players be affect by the RMAH?

I presume you're against all free to play games and FB games etc. as well for the same reason?

Not really F2P and other similar games are a great way to reach new players, the quality of the games has increased particularly and I do believe they will become a major powerhouse in the future. The problem is that often initial promises regarding balance and gameplay are broken down the line, causing players who are already engaged and have already invested considerable amounts of money and time in the game to suck it up and pay even further only to continue. I am half expecting a big case to surface in the future where players sue a particular company for false advertisement and so on.

[kalniel]

Black markets are mostly fuelled by farmers/exploits hence why gaming sweat shops are so common in some poorer countries, still we already had a large amount of accounts hacked in D3 and its items stolen which will also surely end up in the AH. While its true that illicit sellers now have to compete with the all the other players the opposite is also true, the customer base and ease of access to these sellers has increased considerably.

Ah I think I get where you're coming from - you're worried about stolen items appearing at the RMAH. I think that's the reason they have the online connectivity - it allows an audit trail for all the items so all it takes is someone to report a hack and the item can (and will) be reverted. That's how the rollbacks work, otherwise you would get item duplication, which they've said will not happen. Yes, potential for future purchases to be affected, but again, with full tracking, full rollbacks should be possible so no-one loses out apart from the illicit RMTer.

Also its important to remember that a large part of Diablo is PvP,

At the moment it's not. Diablo 3 is a purely PvE game. Personally, I'm not interested in PvP at all, nor are my friends.

So you believe normal players wont be in a disadvantage towards RMAH users?

Not unless Blizzard release items solely in the RMAH. The way I understand it all items have to come from drops, so you're not missing out by not using the RMAH. The only thing the RMAH saves you is time.

Isn't PvP also a great part of Diablo? How will the balance between between players be affect by the RMAH?

Same as above 1) not for me 2) not unless you are keen to jump straight into PvP without playing PvE first. Exactly the same occurs with Guild Wars by the way - you can PvE to get items/skills, or you can buy them and jump straight into PvP.

[roachcoach]

Using something like the AH just takes all the fun out of the game IMHO,especially with a game like Diablo 3 which is about the loot you can get. Part of the fun of the recent Fallout games and Borderlands,was getting that rare weapon.

People make an excuse,that the blacksmith and drops are not enough,so they use the AH instead. You are basically just waiting for other people to do your work for you,especially since you can pay money for items if you CBA to accumulate enough resources,ie,pay to win.

The worst thing is because loads of people will be using it,in the end you will probably have to so eventually if more content is released.

I've seen this concern before but it perplexes me.

In diablo 2, I played online (and I played hardcore in case that changes the dynamic a little). If something I wanted didnt drop from XXX farming runs what I did was: Take all the stuff that dropped I didnt need and hop into a trade channel to get what I wanted.

The AH makes this more accessible sure and its not just uniques (or today's equivalent of) getting hawked there but in 6 months, outside of the hardcore circuit, there wont be a single blue on there I wouldn't expect.

Basically, imho, the AH is little different from /trade or /hardcore trade



The bigger question mark for me is: Where's the gold sink? It's rapidly heading down diablo 2's highway to barter only....or can players *not* trade at all in game? I may have missed a generation or so but iirc diablo 2 'currency' went gold>perfect skulls>SoJ>unique swaps/[the odd stack of chipped gems]. The rune market was different. Anyway, point being gold devalued fast and I see nothing here to stop that.

Unless the goal is to make gold worthless and drive everything through the RMAH, possible but it's a bit of a long shot, but you never know what some people will pay for I guess.

[kalniel]

Yup gold inflation is a concern to some which is already causing people to stock up on items.

But crafting is the designed gold sink - items have random properties so I think it's possible to craft that mega item you were otherwise looking for on the RMAH. That should act as a brake on inflation because as soon as RMAH becomes more expensive than the average crafting expense then people are going to stop buying and start crafting.

[roachcoach]

Yup gold inflation is a concern to some which is already causing people to stock up on items.

But crafting is the designed gold sink - items have random properties so I think it's possible to craft that mega item you were otherwise looking for on the RMAH. That should act as a brake on inflation because as soon as RMAH becomes more expensive than the average crafting expense then people are going to stop buying and start crafting.

Maybe, perhaps they'll change it, I found that by the time I hit nightmare the requirement for 'pages' caused a bigger bottleneck for crafting than gold.

I understand they're aware of this, but not sure what they'll fix it with.

Besides, unless you get some murderous items, the trash generated from there would get funnelled into AH anyway.

[kalniel]

Maybe, perhaps they'll change it, I found that by the time I hit nightmare the requirement for 'pages' caused a bigger bottleneck for crafting than gold.

And can you buy those from the AH?

Besides, unless you get some murderous items, the trash generated from there would get funnelled into AH anyway.

Which should also help dampen more general inflation.

We'll see - with the game they've set up an economy system with lots of information available to them and several variables under their control. Assuming they have some experts they should be able to tweak things to keep it working fine - I just hope it will be economically assessed tweaking rather than experimental tweaking.

[roachcoach]

And can you buy those from the AH?

Which should also help dampen more general inflation.

We'll see - with the game they've set up an economy system with lots of information available to them and several variables under their control. Assuming they have some experts they should be able to tweak things to keep it working fine - I just hope it will be economically assessed tweaking rather than experimental tweaking.

Never looked for pages, though that's not a sink, just shifts it around.

We'll see, the RMAH is the real oddity in here that almost creates an incentive to let inflation go bananas and push people to look for another method (plus the selling of gold there).

It's an interesting experiment anyway.