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Thread: Good news for Rogues

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    Good news for Rogues

    A word from the Devs on rogues usefulness/bugs here.
    I don't mean to sound cold, or cruel, or vicious, but I am so that's the way it comes out.

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    Woo Hoo (train) who hoo !!!

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    Why don't they fix real problems, instead of making rogues more powerful?

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    Because the problems they are fixing are real problems...and the problems they aren't fixing are no doubt another team's problems...

    Not saying there aren't problems, but at least they ARE working on tweaking the classes to make them work how they were envisaged.

    Unlike everyone else I don't see the rogues being pvp gods..as they have to be in stealth..and once they are NOT in stealth they have little protection.

    Powerful? Yeah. Unbalanced?...well....probably not.
    Well Hello!

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    Play a cloth class in pvp and say that.

    At least druids get a chance to fight back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeePee
    Why don't they fix real problems, instead of making rogues more powerful?
    And what bugs do warlocks have?
    I don't mean to sound cold, or cruel, or vicious, but I am so that's the way it comes out.

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    All these rogue issues are pretty serious imo and they don't just relate to PvP.
    Althougth alot of people are concerned about rogues in PvP they are pretty easily countered by a hunter. I can speak from personal experience that on arathor if i attack someone who is resting it is rare to survive if there is a good hunter about. Once i use up my two vanish abilities and the cooldown sets in i then have no chance of running away. This isnt always true in built-up areas but it deffo is in bif open fields.

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    But on the other hand...how much chance do warriors have against mages...oh well I don't know, I've only played one class extensively, and that not much in pvp..I guess its all about trying to keep it balanced, and make the classes do what they should be able to do...

    Warlocks just have issues, not bugs, not powerful in any given situation..lots of neat things but no real amazingness...kind of like a Druid without healing..maybe..

    Was interesting in BRS last night with Madocks reading out stats..I was doing something like 8% of the damage, taking 16-18% (I think?), and healing 71% (with a shaman)....shows I'm still either generating too much aggro or my colleagues are not generating enough!

    Not that has anything to do with the topic...

    PVP...I'm not pvp specced anyway...been thinking about it and I will have a good play with battlegrounds, and its excellent fun doing pvp, but I'm happy the game isn't based around it...I like going off and questing, farming and all the rest of it..pvp is a diversion for me rather than the raison d'etre...

    Maybe its just me: I that find the alliance rogues a bit annoying, especially when its low numbers (ie 10 of them, 5 of us), but apart from that...they have to be outside the main fun by definition..and if you see one, EVERYONE hates them so they get mullered pretty damn quick...so no huge problem?
    Last edited by daverobev; 01-06-2005 at 10:55 PM.
    Well Hello!

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    Not exactly bugs - But try playing a high level warlock in PvP.....you last about 30mins (If your lucky or well (shard) endowed ), then Shard time again ....very frustrating....

    Or how about trying to Taunt another PvP'er, doesnt work, so what is the good of my demon when he cant hold aggro, maybe other classes have a similar prob but with a distinct Armour advantage (I have seen a shield with more armour than i have WITH demon armour enabled)...maybe i have it wrong due to my limited PvP experience...

    Or i am in an instance with a high level (60) warrior, i use one of my more powerful spells (crits for over 1500) and BAM - no one not even an experienced warrior can take aggro from me...even my shadowbolt hits on average for 500 normal, a couple of them and AGGRO is mine

    Personally i think most classes have a few issues, just a case of working around i think.

    Example : Rogue sneaks up on me and uses (Stun? whatever the spell/attack is) then hit me for over a 1000, as quick as i can i hit WoTF (Will of The Forsaken) to remove the restraint on my movement, in the mean time i have been hit twice more , i then cast fear to get rid of the rogue while i mount an attack or heal, Fear being a 2 second cast enables the rogue to hit me 2 more times, ;my health now = less than 600 / unfortunately by this time rogue has accrued his combo points and gives me one more final hit which CRITS - Ole pappa is DEAD! Doesnt always go like that but in my experience more often than not it does
    Solution : Stay away from Rogues.

    There are a number of issues that blizzard SHOULD of dealt with by now, but have n't - wish i knew why
    Arathor

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    Shards.

    No escape spell.

    Shards.

    Most of our spells can be dispelled.

    High level pets are useless.

    Everyone is immune to fear.

    Shards.

    Pets can't keep up with us and need to be resummoned all the time, requiring another shard.

    Theres an 8 debuff maximum on a target including channelling. A warlock needs to use 5 of those slots for damage. Doesn't work in a party, since other peoples debuffs waste the warlocks.

    Did I mention Shards? Those evil things that we have to spend more than half our time farming in order to be 80% as strong as any other class in PvP..

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    Quote Originally Posted by daverobev
    Warlocks just have issues, not bugs, not powerful in any given situation..lots of neat things but no real amazingness...kind of like a Druid without healing..maybe..
    I beg to differ, in any situation i can cast....

    Curse of Shadow (Instant)- Removes a large amount of shadow protection.
    Shadowbolt (2sec cast) (Rank 9 ( i think) - first hit averages 600

    Also worth noting that when i have CoS inplace critical hits are regular (1 in 3)
    ShadowBolt - second similar HP removal
    ShadowBolt - third crits for say 1200 - can do more i have had a crit of 1600.
    Another thing to take into account is the amount of time needed for shadowbolt to reach its target, say 1 second ?

    Granted this is not GUARENTEED - but is a regular occurence.

    So in 9 seconds (Inc hit time to target) a warlock has hit over 2400 HP - an average of 300 DPS give or take Quite a hefty return - this "loose" analysis does not incorporate a hit that increases cast time due to aggro gained

    All in all pretty powerfull as a DPS merchant):
    Arathor

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    Sorry that was just not phrased right by me, I didn't mean in DPS terms..I meant that a Warlock, like a Druid, has lots of neato tricks...its just my MAIN one is healing, and you guys don't seem to have a main one...

    Shards are...a pain, everyone knows that...oh well they are working on it anyway. Key thing is, is your class fun to play...because Mr. Druid here kills at the pace of a snail but I still enjoy the game. Healing in instances? Yeah ok no probs with that, but its not exactly a reason to dance for joy (except when you are the person being healed )...warlocks can do lots of cool things and they ARE getting looked at...
    Well Hello!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Father-Time
    Not exactly bugs - But try playing a high level warlock in PvP.....you last about 30mins (If your lucky or well (shard) endowed ), then Shard time again ....very frustrating....

    Or how about trying to Taunt another PvP'er, doesnt work, so what is the good of my demon when he cant hold aggro, maybe other classes have a similar prob but with a distinct Armour advantage (I have seen a shield with more armour than i have WITH demon armour enabled)...maybe i have it wrong due to my limited PvP experience...

    Or i am in an instance with a high level (60) warrior, i use one of my more powerful spells (crits for over 1500) and BAM - no one not even an experienced warrior can take aggro from me...even my shadowbolt hits on average for 500 normal, a couple of them and AGGRO is mine

    Personally i think most classes have a few issues, just a case of working around i think.

    Example : Rogue sneaks up on me and uses (Stun? whatever the spell/attack is) then hit me for over a 1000, as quick as i can i hit WoTF (Will of The Forsaken) to remove the restraint on my movement, in the mean time i have been hit twice more , i then cast fear to get rid of the rogue while i mount an attack or heal, Fear being a 2 second cast enables the rogue to hit me 2 more times, ;my health now = less than 600 / unfortunately by this time rogue has accrued his combo points and gives me one more final hit which CRITS - Ole pappa is DEAD! Doesnt always go like that but in my experience more often than not it does
    Solution : Stay away from Rogues.

    There are a number of issues that blizzard SHOULD of dealt with by now, but have n't - wish i knew why
    Use your Imp for PvP

    I have 1777 armor, i'm sure you are not far off that with demon armor

    I thought fear was instant cast? It is on a priest. Fear plus run and no rogue will catch you in a crowd because of all the stuns from the 10 or more other people hitting him. Also before thefirst stun is over (4 secs) 80% of the time i get hit with a hunters concussive shot (i think) which stuns me and make me walk randomly for at least 5 seconds and also makes me lose my target, and by this time half the allience raid has seen me and I am permanently stunned until I die.
    I don't mean to sound cold, or cruel, or vicious, but I am so that's the way it comes out.

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    Fear is instant cast for a priest but 2 seconds for warlocks, longer if we get hit and it gets interrupted.. which it does. The only thing we can do if a rogue starts to fight us is happen, by chance, to have a succubus (the pet which is useless for anything else), successfully use charm, and hope the stun wear's off before the rogue can use his trinket. 4 seconds for the stun, then 2 seconds (probably more like 6) for the fear. Not going to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Father-Time
    Also worth noting that when i have CoS inplace critical hits are regular (1 in 3)
    CoS doesn't affect crits. However if you debuff a target below 0 resist you gain a chance to hit for up to 200% damage, which is probably what you're seeing. You can then crit on top of this bonus damage.
    Also CoS isn;t guaranteed win in PvP as it's easily dispelled by a mage or druid.

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