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Thread: Lightroom 5

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    Lightroom 5

    Adobe have the beta up of Lightroom 5. I'll probably upgrade from 4 when it comes out but won't be playing about with the beta just in case it messes something up.

    http://blogs.adobe.com/photoshopdotc...available.html

    If anyone is considering Lightroom, be a good time to check it out.

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Lightroom 5

    Hmm held off 4 as 3 was already enough.. will see if 5 is enough of a leap to upgrade.

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    Re: Lightroom 5

    I always meant to get 4, but never got round to it. 4 had a lot of video improvements, this doesn't seem to have anything more in that regard (from what i've read anyway).

    Will probably get this when it comes out. Should be in a position to go SSD and re-build my desktop.

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    Re: Lightroom 5

    You have to be lucky with the timing but could be worth a gamble at some point soon.

    I had a friend that bought LR3 when it suddenly dropped in price.
    I followed with a purchase a few weeks later.

    When LR4 was announced I informed Adobe that I had only just bought LR3. ( I wasn't aware that LR4 was coming).
    They asked for receipt confirmation and within a month confirmed a free upgrade to LR4 and posted me the boxed DVD version.

    My friend then went through the same procedure, only to be turned down as the gap between purchase was too long.
    (about 3 weeks longer than mine)

    Davee

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Lightroom 5

    Well I've been playing with the beta. Struggling to see the new features, other than the elliptical gradient filter. The still annoy me in how they clearly want to avoid adding features which could be construed as photoshop like. Ie, we've a spot heal, but not a heal brush. Or maybe I just couldn't get that new feature to work properly.

    I've been having some bizarre performance issues. It's running on an i7 3.2ghz, with 24gb of RAM, on a RAIDed SSD with 900MB/s R and 700MB/s W, with a dual xfire 7970. WHY IS IT SLOW?! I just can't fathom what they are doing to make it perform so poor. However it appears to only happen with certain raw files, I believe it might be due to some extra unique processing logic for the RAW format used by my Pentax-Q, which isn't the normal pentax format. I'm still investing the issue, but haven't found why, they 'helpfully' mention here http://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/...nce-hints.html some tips, but seriously are useless at times. I also don't understand why it is so single threaded some of the time. I can't help but feel they have a hodgepodge of code in the mix, with no proper consistent paradigm for work allocation. Obviously they should pay me a massive sum of dosh to teach them mapreduce, and queue based actor paradigms.

    The adjustment brush is still a bizarrely black art thing. I have no idea when an area is 100% masked with it, because often it will feather endlessly, but then suddenly find a point. This brush also runs so slow if you have a nice resolution monitor.

    The other interesting thing is the radial brush effect appears to need some work still I think. I used it on this selfie

    Yet despite no curve correction such as blacks, or clarity, it created a massive contrast between my shirt and the sky behind.

    All in all I'm a bit disappointed. I will probably be skipping this new version as they don't appear to have actually revisited performance, the ideas of 'checked' beta builds been this slow is a naughties thing, so I am not holding out much hope of improvement before release. The new features are pretty thin on the ground.
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    Re: Lightroom 5

    I can't decide. There wasn't anything in the new feature list that made me that interested in this. Seems more like LR4.5 rather than LR5 to me.

    I'll see when I eventually re-build my PC, might skip this version as well. I don't *need* the video stuff yet perhaps by LR6 I will and there will be other good reasons to get it.

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    Re: Lightroom 5

    Well Adobe might also be trying to strong arm you into rental, if that happens I think people on 2 or 3 should look at buying 4.

    Radial filters are 'nice' but not anywhere near nice enough for a rental fee.
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    Re: Lightroom 5

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Well Adobe might also be trying to strong arm you into rental, if that happens I think people on 2 or 3 should look at buying 4.

    Radial filters are 'nice' but not anywhere near nice enough for a rental fee.
    Personally, my view on"rental" with LR is exactly as it is with me renting PS ..... it ain't happening. If Adobe go that way with LR (which I doubt, at least, any time soon) I'd stick with whatever my current version was when they did it. I am notrenting/subscribing to software, not now, not ever, not for Adobe and not for MS. Or, if sticking is not an option, I'll switch to non-Adobe or MS tools, or just do without. But rental! The Sun will explode before I'll do that.

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    Re: Lightroom 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Personally, my view on"rental" with LR is exactly as it is with me renting PS ..... it ain't happening. If Adobe go that way with LR (which I doubt, at least, any time soon) I'd stick with whatever my current version was when they did it. I am notrenting/subscribing to software, not now, not ever, not for Adobe and not for MS. Or, if sticking is not an option, I'll switch to non-Adobe or MS tools, or just do without. But rental! The Sun will explode before I'll do that.
    Ah, you see I'm not opposed to renting, so long as I think it will benefit me.

    I've got so many disks for software I'll never, ever, used again. Renting the license for some things really does make sense. I'm never going to be using NT4 again. Yet I've got paid for copies of 3.5 4, 4SP4, 2k, XP, Vista, 7 and 8. Having a rental for something which I expect constant iterations and improvements for makes sense to me. Maybe I say that as someone who flogs his software.

    Really important things that receive constant improvement I get the idea of subscription for. Things like Visual Studio have tremendous new features, performance tweaks, and enhancements with each version. It's worth the couple of grand a pop. Also, if I know on projects etc, I'm going to be using it for only 6 months, it makes sense to rent it for only 6 months, the 'express' versions can always do in a pinch.

    However, lightroom 3 to 5 doesn't fill me with any trust! To rent, I need trust.
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    Re: Lightroom 5

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Ah, you see I'm not opposed to renting, so long as I think it will benefit me.

    I've got so many disks for software I'll never, ever, used again. Renting the license for some things really does make sense. I'm never going to be using NT4 again. Yet I've got paid for copies of 3.5 4, 4SP4, 2k, XP, Vista, 7 and 8. Having a rental for something which I expect constant iterations and improvements for makes sense to me. Maybe I say that as someone who flogs his software.

    Really important things that receive constant improvement I get the idea of subscription for. Things like Visual Studio have tremendous new features, performance tweaks, and enhancements with each version. It's worth the couple of grand a pop. Also, if I know on projects etc, I'm going to be using it for only 6 months, it makes sense to rent it for only 6 months, the 'express' versions can always do in a pinch.

    However, lightroom 3 to 5 doesn't fill me with any trust! To rent, I need trust.
    And I understand, and don't dispute the logic. But the crunch is in the bit where you said "so long as I think it will benefit me". That requires a subjective assessment of benefits, and to evaluate them, costs.

    If you are going to upgrade with every iteration, then depending on the costs of the upgrades and the cost of the subscription, it might well be worth it to you. But that calculation also requires an assumption that you will upgrade on each iteration.

    Perhaps you do, but I don't.

    For instance, I'm currently on Office 2007 on one machine, Office 2000 on a couple of others, and I can't even remember what version on others. I have one machine with boot drive variants including Win 7 and Win 8, but I skipped Vista completely, never bothered with Win ME or SE, and alternated even on MS-DOS releases. And a couple of machines have been upgraded from XP to Ubuntu. On Photoshop, typically, I alternate releases, upgrading at the point where the upgrade path disappears if I don't.

    But it's also to do with personal circumstances and preferences. I do not like regular payments. I even paid my mortgage by cheque, monthly, avoiding direct debit and standing order, and the ONLY automatic payment I make for anything at all is TV/Broadband, etc,.

    I've had a couple of flaming rows with suppliers that tried to make credit card payments automatic, like my insurance company. I will not agree to automatically renewing credit card payments to anybody, for anything, under any circumstances.

    So, for a variety of reasons, partly including the value of subscription v outright purchsse, and partly aversion to regular payments, I won't subscribe to software.

    But here's the biggest single reason.

    If I buy a licence, then I am making a decision today, based on a known single cost. It's going to cost me £x. And only £x.

    If I subscribe, it's going to cost me £y/month, for however many months, or years, or decades, and if I stop subscribing, I lose the facility entirely.

    For me, software subscription is a lose/lose situation. It doesn't suit my financial assessment in terms of upgrade strategy, and it sure doesn't suit my personal preferences in terms of payment commitments.

    In short, except for very specific and limited exceptions, I'm not renting ANYTHING any more. I've paid off the mortgage, haven't had a car loan, or a loan for anything for that matter, for 20+ years, and if I buy on credit card, which is rare, I pay it off immediately. I'd say that about 9 months in 12, my monthly credit card statement has a nil balance and nil transactions. I am, in short, very debt averse indeed,

    The notion of software subscription goes absolutely against the grain with me, not least becauee it removes control from me. Right now, I decide if a given piece of software is worth £x to me, and if it is, I buy. But if you rent, you don't know what x, the total cost, is. What you have is a known cost of £y per month, for z months, where z is unknown.

    And I'm not doing that. Not for Photoshop, not for Office, and not for Windows. Not now, and not ever. I won't use cloud services like Office 365, now or ever. I can see the way these companies think, and want to go. They want an end to "personal" computing, where we have control over what we do, with local processing power, and where we each decide when and if to buy, and they want to convert each of us into a good little cash cow, coughing up a rental fee every month for a "terminal" connecting to their "computing" utility. They'd like nothing more than to get "personal" computing to the point where we buy it like a utility service. Well, the hell with that. I will keep PC processing local, just like my data storage is local.

    The notion of subscribing to a service to get constant upgrades might appeal to you, but it is anathema to me, because it puts control in the service provider's hands, not mine. An example .... the very first thing I do with Windows, and every other piece of software, is to turn automatic background updating off. I won't even let virus definitions update with seeking permission, and I do not do Windows auto-updates. I update what I want, when I want, and only if I choose.

    Quite a bit of my computing setup can't auto-update even if it wants to. I have two networks here, not physically connected at all. One of them has no internet connection on it. No broadband, no wifi. Just hard-wired links between isolated machines. Some of those have been running, doing specific things, for .... well, Windows XP was state of the art at the time, and I mean pre-SP1. And they are still pre-SP1. Given that that's my view on things, I think why I won't pay subscription should be clear. It's not that it's inherently wrong, if it suits you. It's just that I get far better bang per buck by my criteria by letting a tool that does a job do the job for as long as it does the job adequately, and I see no need to upgrade it all the time, and certainly not to pay for it monthly.

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    Re: Lightroom 5

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Well Adobe might also be trying to strong arm you into rental, if that happens I think people on 2 or 3 should look at buying 4.

    Radial filters are 'nice' but not anywhere near nice enough for a rental fee.
    I bought LR1Beta, LR1, LR2 and LR3... but I can easliy see myself skipping LR4 and LR5. If LR6 ends up being rental I'll get hold of a copy of LR5 before they disappear. Otherwise I'll have saved myself two upgrade fees.

    Something that could skupper all this is if Canon release a 7DmkII and I can somehow afford to buy it before LR6 is released. Then I'll need to upgrade.

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Lightroom 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkstar View Post
    Something that could skupper all this is if Canon release a 7DmkII and I can somehow afford to buy it before LR6 is released. Then I'll need to upgrade.
    The converter to DNG has always been free in the past, so you should just be able to add that step to your workflow (it can do batch) and continue using older versions of lightroom.
    http://www.adobe.com/support/downloa...atform=Windows

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    Re: Lightroom 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    If I buy a licence, then I am making a decision today, based on a known single cost. It's going to cost me £x. And only £x.
    Ah, but that is the thing, you forgot another variable; will be supported until Y.

    For example, I am sure you are aware, but I would personally never recommend Office 2000, I would recommend very strongly against its use, it has ended extended support (10 years), there are critical vulnerabilities for it out in the wild. These might not sound like much, but they offer full privilege escalation pretty much all the time, the one in the vector rendering is particularly nasty.

    This means that the uses of the software often have a practical time limit. Sometimes it is a case of the hardware it will run on, sometimes its security related.
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    Re: Lightroom 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkstar View Post
    Something that could skupper all this is if Canon release a 7DmkII and I can somehow afford to buy it before LR6 is released. Then I'll need to upgrade.
    Relax, it's not going to be until 2014, and then it won't matter anyway.... The D800E you'll buy as you sell all your old kit will be supported!
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    Re: Lightroom 5

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Ah, but that is the thing, you forgot another variable; will be supported until Y.

    For example, I am sure you are aware, but I would personally never recommend Office 2000, I would recommend very strongly against its use, it has ended extended support (10 years), there are critical vulnerabilities for it out in the wild. These might not sound like much, but they offer full privilege escalation pretty much all the time, the one in the vector rendering is particularly nasty.

    This means that the uses of the software often have a practical time limit. Sometimes it is a case of the hardware it will run on, sometimes its security related.
    Um, no, I didn't forget that variable. Re-read the last para of my previous post. Two networks here, one with NO connection to the outside world. It's local, only. It does not connect to the net, no broadband, no wifi, and no link to the machines that do connect to the outside world.

    For instance, one machine runs a contact management system that I built. It's based on a database product, but the database itself, the forms, tables, queries, etc, are all custom. It has not been updated in years, because it does all I need of it. Same machine .... asset management system. Again, customised to my needs, by me. Also, I have a lot of sensitive (to me) data stored. If any hacker should get it, it would be a right pain. But, short of breaking into the location of those machines, they aren't going to hack it because they cannot hack via a non-existent link.

    I really, seriously don't give a hoot that support for Office 2000 has ceased, because, for what I use it for, it's been doing it for, well, since release, and will continue to do what it has always done, at no further cost.

    So, suppose I'd upgraded that Office 2000 to, what, 2003 (or 04, whatever), then 2007, then 2010, then ..... etc. And it'd STILL only be doing what Office 2000 is doing, I'd gain nothing at all from the upgrades, and it'd have cost me hundreds of pounds. That's exactly my point.


    Put it this way. I buy a Makita drill/driver. It drills, and drives, and I'm delighted with it. Makita launch a new one a couple of years later, and it makes the tea for me. I don't want my drill/driver to make the tea, so I don't upgrade. A couple of years after that, the next version of the drill driver makes the bed, and walks the dog. I'm quite capable of making my own bed, and don't have a dog, so I don't upgrade.

    If, on the other hand, Makita release a new version of that drill/driver that is also a jigsaw, and I need a jigsaw, I might upgrade, but I won't upgrade unless my drill/driver packs up, or I need it to do something that it can't do, but a new one will. And I'm certainly not paying Makita a monthly charge to rent a drill/driver, on the basis that it's the same cost as assuming I upgraded every time they released a new one, and keeps me "up to date" with their version of a teamaker and dog-walker.

    Okay, I'm taking the pee a bit, but I'm sure you get the serious point. Which is, just because a software company build in some new features and release a new version doesn't mean those new features are of any use to a large proportion of it's users. And in fact, sometimes, are merely bloat-ware designed to justify an upgrade fee for a "new" version.

    Subscription does offer some benefits to some users, but not to others. For the latter, it's merely a clever way for the software companies to leverage users into paying for tea-making and dog-walking capabilities, whether they either need or want them, or not.

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    Re: Lightroom 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Um, no, I didn't forget that variable. Re-read the last para of my previous post. Two networks here, one with NO connection to the outside world. It's local, only. It does not connect to the net, no broadband, no wifi, and no link to the machines that do connect to the outside world

    .....

    Okay, I'm taking the pee a bit, but I'm sure you get the serious point. Which is, just because a software company build in some new features and release a new version doesn't mean those new features are of any use to a large proportion of it's users. And in fact, sometimes, are merely bloat-ware designed to justify an upgrade fee for a "new" version.
    Whilst you have an air gap security system, this is an unusual use case. Many people find the need for connections fairly frequently, be it USB sticks or network or press play on tape.

    Ultimately, software has this almost unique issue of being exploited so cheaply, so readily, so parasitically. The closest to things we've seen before are biological.

    The problem here is that there is an on-going maintenance cost, rather than a power drill, think fast bread nuclear power reactor. Now, unless its in full shutdown, bits of it are going to wear out. If your in a completely deserted place, its fine, let it melt, if not, it is rather important that the system stays up to date, the vendor doesn't want to use the old flawed plumbing, it wants to use the newer stuff, it is better and more robust.

    Given the events of blaster, I think it is a fair approximation, certain software is so ubiquitous, it can and will spread nasty things via flaws. It is this danger, that means there is a need for ongoing commitments to maintaince. People who didn't update their ruby framework are finding out at the moment the danger they pose, not just to themselves, but others, as these web servers help spread infection far faster than domestic machines normally do.

    From the side of a vendor, I really understand them forcing time limit expiration on things you buy. With that in mind, all purchases are effectively a lease.

    I think it makes more sense to always consider it a lease vs a rental.
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