A dilemna...

[rox0r]

So, here it is in a nutshell; I love my dslr and kit, love what it can do and the shots I can produce with it. But, I don't love that it's a big hairy lump of a thing that dissuades me from grabbing it to take on a regular ole 'day out'.

I find myself just not bothering more and more, partly because I just don't have enough hours in the day with a family and a full time job to entertain my hobby these days but mainly because the 7D and lenses is such a 'mission' to mobilise.

I keep hankering for something smaller, more suited to shoving in a jacket pocket. Something to whip out and take shots that can equal the capabilities of the 7D....but smaller, lighter.

I'm not talking pocket cameras or ultra slim p&s, I have a Galaxy Note II that takes adequate shots for that criteria. I'm looking more at the micro two thirds and mirrorless market now that it's more mature and capable.

The crunch here is I cannot afford to be buying another camera, I just can't justify it to myself or the wife. What I'm proposing is selling off my dslr kit and trading for the best alternative I could get with the money from that.

I'd be looking at getting rid of:

Canon 7D
Canon 17-55 IS
Canon 70-200 IS
Canon 60mm macro
Related bumpf such as spare batteries, CF cards and any other accessories that wouldn't translate to a new system but wouldn't add much weight to the final trade-in value.

So this is where your opinions come alive, what would be my best choice given the above? I would want something as close to the 7D and lenses in capability as possible but in a smaller more shoulder-friendly package.

I still want to be able to do macro work but the long lenses aren't so important to me as I find myself not using them.

My primary focus is on something to be taking shots of my 3 month old daughter as she grows up. Something that can handle most situations and produce shots that won't make me regret getting rid of the 7D.
Your thoughts and advice are appreciated Hexites...

[circuitmonkey]

I went for the Panasonic GF3 twin lens kit, mainly because the price was very attractive.
That said, I'm by no means an expert and am not going to recommend a particular camera, but I wish I had gone with an Olympus with the optical stability in the body rather than the lenses, would have made buying 3rd party lenses possible.

Just my two cents worth

[kalniel]

Yeah, sell it off and switch to one of the compact system cameras. Sony have just about the top sensors, but Oly/Panny have the best lenses and the latest range of Olys are really nice to handle apparently.

The OMD E-M5, E-P5 (pen), E-PL5 (pen-lite) and E-PM2 (pen-mini) all share the same sensor which I'd class a little behind the 7Ds, but still in the same ballpark of 'modern DSLR' so more than adequate for most uses. That list goes from biggest/most manual control down to smallest/least manual control. I'm especially tempted by the E-P5 which is due out soon.

Lenses for the system cover the following range:

from: http://hazeghi.org/mft-lenses.html

So plenty of scope to cover the same as your existing lenses. Remember crop factor is 2x compared to the 1.6x for your 7D.

[TheAnimus]

Well the 7D isn't really a good sensor, so you won't have a problem in terms of quality, in lab conditions the sensor of the 7D is pants, easily equalled by 4/3rds ones. However, you will probably end up with Contrast rather than Phase detect focus.

The question is, do you want to go mirrorless? If so, rangefinder or erm, I forget what they call the others!

Then how small? I have a pentax-q I use when travelling and cycling, but you simply won't get the kind of quality portraits from its plastic lens. You have virtually no simple to control bokeh, so are down to using postpro or lighting to achieve a similar effect. I would suggest you'd hate losing a DSLR for something like that. However, they are only £100 as SRS Microsystems clear their stock, so might be worth a punt!

If the main issue is the bulk, have you considered a good 'day lens', Tamron do make some rather OK ones. This way you could just carry that combination? You'd still have your DSLR but a light lens you can take with you. Ultimately you've got 1.5kg of mass for your 70-200 f2.8..... Do you really need something that can go so wide? Not to mention the bulk of the IS system?

Maybe something along the lines of a portrait level prime would be a better bet, with a day lens? My travel kit often looks like this:
Pentax K-5 750g
Tramron 18-250mm 430g
Pentax 77mm f1.8 270g

So by the time we've got the bag, all the filters, batteries and such we are under 2kg. It's very portable. Sometimes I take just my 16-50mm f2.8 and 77mm, packing a teleconverter of 1.4 and 2.0, this bumps the weight about about 300grams, but still fits.

My gf favours a full prime set up, with her 15,35,77(we couldn't share) and camera I don't think she even hits 1.4kg. The primes live in glasses style cloth bags that offer no real protection, all but the 77 fit in a pocket, the 77 requires a handbag, and the K-5 is built like a tank and incredibly well weather sealed, so normally just worn naked, with a pacsafe camera strap for anti-theft protection. I think that is about as light and small as you can go whilst having 100% pentaprisim.

The other option would be to look at an olympus E-M5 but you'd have to be OK with mirrorless. I could talk about contrast vs phase detect, but myself I wouldn't be happy with that.

[kalniel]

The other option would be to look at an olympus E-M5 but you'd have to be OK with mirrorless. I could talk about contrast vs phase detect, but myself I wouldn't be happy with that.

Apparently.. speed wise there's nothing in it from the lastest Oly's - AF is lightning quick now. Tracking performance isn't up to scratch though, so depends how fast OP's child can run I think bigger issue is lack of optical viewfinder.

[kalniel]

As for possible lenses to go with an Oly, I'd get the Oly 60mm/2.8 macro (for macro, obviously, doubles up as a very very sharp longish lens), Oly 17mm/1.8 (for low light general shots and photos of kid) and you'll probably get a kit 14-42mm lens with the camera.

As the EP5 is going to be priced high for a bit, here's a PL5 possible combination:

Camera+kit 14-42 £530 325g+110g
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Olympus-E-PL...s=olympus+epl5

17/1.8
£400 120g
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Olympus-M-ZU...s=olympus+17mm

60/2.8 macro
£395 185g
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Olympus-M-ZU...s=olympus+60mm

Total:
~£1325
740g

Could drop the 17 prime I guess, it's a bit of a luxury, but I'd go out with just the camera and that lens and shoot all day in a very pocketable package. Dual kit is available for about £110 more as well if you think you might want a long lens.

Or if you want really pocketable, swap out the oly 17 for the panny 20/1.7 (also saves £130):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-Lu...s=panasonic+20

edit: reading some reviews I would actually go for the panny 20/1.7 over the oly 17/1.8 now

edit2: changed my mind again. Panny 25/1.4 now

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

For any telephoto work a dSLR will be still better suited IMHO. Have you considered keeping your current camera for telephoto work and selling off the other lenses??

Have you looked at the Ricoh GR Digital?? It only has a fixed 28MM/F2.8 lens but uses a 16MP Sony APS-C sensor which is found in various iterations in Sony,Nikon and Pentax cameas. However its is more like a large compact camera in size and is the worlds smallest APS-C camera.

Of course there is also the Sony RX100 which has a sharp 28-100MM lens and a 1" sensor. It also in the larger compact category but still easy to fit in a jacket pocket IMHO.

[Bobster]

FF X100s

[rox0r]

Interesting input so far, my eye has been drawn toward the Olympus offerings.

I had thought of your idea CAT, sell off the 17-55 (Even saying it just makes my mind scream the word 'Heretic!') and the 60mm which would net somewhere in the region of 800-odd quid and get a smaller system with the 7D and 70-200 for long work. But frankly, I feel the 7D would gather even more dust than it tends to do now and would end up a perpetually depreciating toy that I really should invest the funds from into something that will get more use.

The whole lot would net somewhere in the region of 2 grand and I'm happy to plough it all back into something that meets my criteria.

The notion of a more suitable lighter 'day lens' was on the cards too but the 7D is still a lump. I want something unobtrusive on a day out with the bairn, what I want is for my focus to be with her and not the brick swinging round my neck. Something that can be plopped in a generous pocket if I have her around my neck is more appropriate.

Shame really that York no longer has a Jessops for me to be able to handle prospective candidates. Bah.

[kalniel]

Shame really that York no longer has a Jessops for me to be able to handle prospective candidates. Bah.

Cameramart, 18 Church Street?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps?q=&lay...ed=0CC8QxB0wAA

[rox0r]

Yeah, he does have a few in the window now you mention it. I never really look in that side I'm usually licking the windows on the second hand gear while the missus moans at me to 'come along now we need to do something far more tedious'....

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Interesting input so far, my eye has been drawn toward the Olympus offerings.

I had thought of your idea CAT, sell off the 17-55 (Even saying it just makes my mind scream the word 'Heretic!') and the 60mm which would net somewhere in the region of 800-odd quid and get a smaller system with the 7D and 70-200 for long work. But frankly, I feel the 7D would gather even more dust than it tends to do now and would end up a perpetually depreciating toy that I really should invest the funds from into something that will get more use.

The whole lot would net somewhere in the region of 2 grand and I'm happy to plough it all back into something that meets my criteria.

The notion of a more suitable lighter 'day lens' was on the cards too but the 7D is still a lump. I want something unobtrusive on a day out with the bairn, what I want is for my focus to be with her and not the brick swinging round my neck. Something that can be plopped in a generous pocket if I have her around my neck is more appropriate.

Shame really that York no longer has a Jessops for me to be able to handle prospective candidates. Bah.

I think a GR Digital or Sony RX100 would do the trick.

The main issue with the mirrorless cameras,is even if the bodies are slim,the lenses tend not to be and as a result make them harder to fit in large pockets.

Edit!!

Even the Sony NEX3N and the Panasonic GF6 with the fold down lenses still are reasonably long:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/474...nds-on-preview

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/pan...-lumix-dmc-gf6

They are among the smallest mirrorless cameras AFAIK.

[TheAnimus]

How small do you want to go? What about Sony NEX stuff? Would that be small enough with primes? You'd have the advantage that you could still have a proper DSLR for your telephoto stuff. Effectively buy a couple of primes for the lightweight day usage, and still have a system you can use between both?

Also might be worth looking at the powerfully ugly http://www.srsmicrosystems.co.uk/734...ns---SALE.html K-01, £350 including a not bad prime. Keep in mind this will have better image quality than your 7D, whilst the prime should happily deliver shots, being a prime lens, better than your 17-50mm.

The downsides are, like most mirrorless the focus, but also it won't have the same high FPS rate.

Also it looks absolutely but-ugly. I mean, wow it's ugly. It's like Kryton from red-dwarf had sex with anne widdecombe.

[Saracen]

I can't really help, because when faced with a similar dilemma, I went the other way. I couldn't face giving up the DSLR, especially for macro, so I did go where you said you aren't, that being a shirt-pocket compact .... a fairly high-end Panasonic.

Essentially, I just updated an old Olympus 5050 to get a far more compact camera with a wider zoom range, for thoee occasions when I want compact, or don't need absolutely the best quality I can get.

I looked at it from the perspective of what I want the images FOR. When is the image quality from that Panny compact good enough? Truthfully, for me, nearly always, other than when I really do want the DSLR.

So for me, I opted for the Panny quality when I wasn't bothered about large prints, exhibution work or commercial stuff, and the rest of the time, I just grimace and lug the SLR gear about.

And, it cost me a couple of hundred quid, instead of flogging off all the SLR gear, with the inherent cost when I decided it was a mistake and that I really needed the SLR when I needed it, and bought a whole load of it all over again.

[rox0r]

How small do you want to go? What about Sony NEX stuff? Would that be small enough with primes? You'd have the advantage that you could still have a proper DSLR for your telephoto stuff. Effectively buy a couple of primes for the lightweight day usage, and still have a system you can use between both?

Also might be worth looking at the powerfully ugly http://www.srsmicrosystems.co.uk/734...ns---SALE.html K-01, £350 including a not bad prime. Keep in mind this will have better image quality than your 7D, whilst the prime should happily deliver shots, being a prime lens, better than your 17-50mm.

The downsides are, like most mirrorless the focus, but also it won't have the same high FPS rate.

Also it looks absolutely but-ugly. I mean, wow it's ugly. It's like Kryton from red-dwarf had sex with anne widdecombe.

By that do I take it you mean keep the 7D and 70-200 for telephoto? Not really what I'd like but I can see sense in keeping it aswell.....another twist to the dilemna. I do very much like the size of the NEX gear but being an old fart I'm (purely aesthetically) drawn to the new breed of 'retro chic'. Or whatever it is the hipsters are calling it today.

And that Pentax is just some kind of offensive 90's Fisher Price throwback. I was almost a little sick.

[TheAnimus]

Well the advantage of the NEX or K-01 is that you can share lenses between a proper DSLR and the mirrorless. Whilst the K-01 is but ugly, it is incredibly cheap for what it is, that £240 body, will produce much better photos than your current 7D, whilst weighing a lot less. Downside is you loose out on phase detect focusing etc.

That way you can have best of both worlds. Some small light primes and a mirrorless.

Granted APS-C still weighs more than micro 4/3rds. But if you enjoyed using your 70-200mm you will be seriously disappointed in the mirrorless world.

As you said you didn't want to split your system, maybe jumping to sony/pentax might be suitable alternative? I believe Sony offerings are the best for the weight and size, whilst having APS-C interopability?