Getting a CSC

The wife surprised me the other day saying she wanted a good camera. Unusual because she is not into photography or even gadgets at all, and she spends next to nothing anyway.

I have done a fair bit of research, but I am keen to get a camera that she will use and not one I would choose. Having something that is small that will easily fit into a handbag is one of the major requirements, naturally along with producing good quality images. Our first port of call was a Panasonic DMC-GM1. Nice size but with no viewfinder and a non tiltable screen (you need a VF or tilt screen), this was ruled out. The best "bang for buck" appeared to be the new Sony A6000, but my wife felt this was too big. The A5000 on the other hand was a nice size and had some good features but doesn't quite have all the manual controls. Kind of got stuck now as most CSC cameras fall into these two groups....smaller less features for around £350 or larger with better features for £600-£700. Doesnt appear to be much in-between....the Samsung NX300 has no built in flash.

Any help, pointers, advice from CSC users would be appreciated.

The Sony NEX range are worth a look, I've got a 5N from a few years ago and it's a brilliant camera. Flash isn't built-in, but I tend to leave mine attached, doesn't get in the way and folds down above the lens.

The new Sony RX100 M3 seems to fit all your requirements.

Its not out yet but every preview so far seems to indicate its almost all good and not much bad.

In the following review the guy can't stop raving about how good it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjVwF9qwaos

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Originally Posted by Infinite

The new Sony RX100 M3 seems to fit all your requirements.

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Except it's not a CSC. It's a fixed lens compact camera. Don't get me wrong, I have an RX100 and it's great for a compact, but it can't touch on even old/cheap CSCs for image quality.

Why does she want a view finder? If it's 'or a tilt screen' then there are lots of options. The Oly pen cameras are really tiny for a CSC and produce great images out of the camera, with the power for more control as well later down the line with a fantastic (and possibly the best) range of lenses. Something like an Olympus E-PL5 is absolutely gorgeous, takes fantastic pictures and will last a photographer a long time.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD...mpus-epl5A.HTM
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/cam...1093255/review

True but is a CSC even needed? Sounds like it will end up being a girl's handbag camera. While a mirrorless camera body is about the same size as a larger compact camera, the moment you add any sort of lens it become big, awkward and heavy. Pretty sure my gf wouldn't want to carry my NEX5R in her handbag all day, there is enough crap in there already :p

No, she want's a CSC. We have been through all the pros and cons of various camera types. As I said a Viewfinder OR tiltable screen would be fine, so yes something like the PL5 is in the first group I mentioned being only £300. My wife would be flattered to be called a "Girl", and her handbag is more of a shoulder bag. However this was mentioned just to illustrate that it need not be so small as to fit in a pocket. Yes I have noticed that some CSC cameras come with some rather large standard lenses (Fuji fro example), which rather defeats the object. However others have some quite nice compact lenses. Alternatively we could get a camera body and chose the lense to fit the requirement. There are some really great ones, but typically £300 for a lens.

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Originally Posted by Clingy

so yes something like the PL5 is in the first group I mentioned being only £300.

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What features do you think the PL5 is missing then? Viewfinder aside, it's basically a full on DSLR feature-wise.

The PL5 is a cracking bit of kit, very good quality for the size and price point.

If you want something smaller and cheaper you could go for the Pentax Q10, but the quality is really not as good, but it does start at £180 with a basic lens included. IIRC it's still the worlds smallest CSC. However, it lacks a tilt-able screen, but it comes in way under budget.

However, myself I'd just go for the PL5 given your requirements.

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Originally Posted by kalniel

What features do you think the PL5 is missing then? Viewfinder aside, it's basically a full on DSLR feature-wise.

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I agree it's a good camera, that's why it's on my list....but reviews suggest image quality could be better, the screen is not up to the standard of newer models, AF is not as fast, and it doesn't have integral flash. Not sure about the manual facilities. However it still might be the most appropriate option for a novice even though it is now some 18 month old.

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Originally Posted by Clingy

I agree it's a good camera, that's why it's on my list....but reviews suggest image quality could be better, the screen is not up to the standard of newer models, AF is not as fast, and it doesn't have integral flash. Not sure about the manual facilities. However it still might be the most appropriate option for a novice even though it is now some 18 month old.

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Ah sorry, thought you meant you were lumping it together with your 'small but limited features' group. The manual facilities are at least equal to and sometimes exceeding full DSLRs, lots of direct control too.

I hadn't seen anything questioning the image quality except at extremely high ISO, but then that's something you'd apply to lots of DSLRs too, especially entry level ones. You don't typically want to use an integrated flash on a DSLR and on a CSC they're even worse! You can use full external flashes though with most good cameras, including this one. But flash photography is a whole other ball game!

The AF is very fast!

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Originally Posted by imaging resource

The Olympus E-PL5's full-autofocus shutter lag in single-area AF mode (center AF position) was only 0.221 second with the 14-42mm II R kit lens. That's faster than most consumer DSLRs these days.

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The only negative about AF is that it's not phase detect (no CSC's are) so it can't pre-predict depth changes and anticipate, so if you are shooting something coming towards/away from you very quickly then you need to get a DSLR with phase detect really.

Take a gander at the full manual for the E-PL5:
http://www.olympus.co.jp/en/support/...man_epl5_e.pdf

There's a huge array of options and settings if you want to get into it - lots and lots of features and customisation to set it up how you want, but also easy to pick up and shoot with as is.

My NEX 5R has phase detect. Its apparently not very good but its there. I use a Sigma 30mm and it won't work with 3rd party lenses.

The a6000 however has it and is meant to be working now and spot on.

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Originally Posted by http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-a6000/sony-a6000A6.HTM

Bottom line, the Sony A6000's performance was generally excellent in our tests, with blazing fast AF speeds, extremely quick prefocused shutter lag and a very fast burst mode that supports continuous autofocus. Startup time was sluggish, though, and while buffer depths were quite good, clearing after a max-length burst of 24-megapixel images can take some time even with a fast SD card.

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Don't know what other models are out there but I love my Sony NEX-5R :D

Smashed up my powerzoom lense I had for it a couple months ago :( but the sigma 30mm one I'm using at the moment is pretty decent (and cheap)... Miss having wide angle tho.

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Originally Posted by Dooms

Don't know what other models are out there but I love my Sony NEX-5R :D

Smashed up my powerzoom lense I had for it a couple months ago :( but the sigma 30mm one I'm using at the moment is pretty decent (and cheap)... Miss having wide angle tho.

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How did you break it? I barely use mine as it does seem a bit fragile and now prefer the prime lenses. I only use it when I need to do some wide angles..

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Originally Posted by Infinite

How did you break it? I barely use mine as it does seem a bit fragile and now prefer the prime lenses. I only use it when I need to do some wide angles..

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24 mile 14 pub cycle crawl... Needless to say it got a bit messy and I was taken out by one of my fellow drunks on a bike - breaking the lens, my bag and possibly my wrist in the process :P

Thanks Kalniel - very helpful.

Infinite - The A6000 would be my choice from what I have read, but the camera is not for me. Indeed getting one that I say is the best option would probably be counter-productive....anyone who has been married more than a few years will know what I mean!