intel/nvidia or amd/radeon

[shaithis]

To some degree you can speculate.....and with ps4 and xbox 720 development underway I think it's fairly safe to say the the next 24-36 months will see a greater increase in requirements for pc gaming than we have seen the last few years.

[Willzzz]

The cost is relevant and it is not a mid-market card at all. In fact cost is the singular most important metric. Companies can brand stuff whatever way they want to.

In fact out of all the computer enthusiasts I know,none of them consider a £250 card as mid-market and neither do I. The GTX570,HD6970,HD5870 and GTX470 launched at £225+ and were never considered mid-market. Only computer enthusiasts on forums might think of a £225+ card as midrange.

OK and do any of them consider multiple monitors mid-range either?
You can easily find a 660 Ti under £225 anyway.

[Willzzz]

Cards like 660 Ti beat AMD cards? What cards? 4830? 7970? At a given price (market positioning is irrelevant) I don't recall 600 conclusively beating 7000, especially in terms of AA?

http://www.techspot.com/review/603-best-graphics-cards/
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...xy-msi-19.html

Batman: 660 Ti beats 7950 Boost on minimum fps 1600p 8xMSAA
BF3: 660Ti beats 7950 @ 1600p 4xAA
BL2: 660Ti beats 7970 @ 1600p FXAA
DA2: 660Ti beats 7950 boost @ 1600p 4xAA
Hard Reset: 660Ti beats 7950 @ 1600p 4xAA
Just Cause 2: 660Ti beats 7950 @ 1600p 8xAA
Shogun 2: 660(non Ti!) beats 7950 boost @ 1200p 8xAA
EU Escalation: 660Ti beats 7970 @ 1600p 8xMSAA

I'm sure you can find more where the 7950 wins, but this is supposed to be the 660 Ti's Achilles heel, this is where the 192bit bus is supposed to cripple performance, this is where it is supposed to suffer humiliating loss after humiliating loss, but yet it is still trading blows with cards that have a bus twice as wide.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I'm sure you can find more where the 7950 wins, but this is supposed to be the 660 Ti's Achilles heel, this is where the 192bit bus is supposed to cripple performance, this is where it is supposed to suffer humiliating loss after humiliating loss, but yet it is still trading blows with cards that have a bus twice as wide.

How come the GTX670 is faster then?? We said long term which and all you done is cherry picked a few Nvidia sponsored games. Moreover,you still have not answered the question,will in 18 months after the GTX660TI was launched, will it be "faster" than a HD7950.

It is also hilarious how on forums like OcUK,GTX670 and GTX680 owners are consistently recommending HD7950 cards over the GTX660TI?? Maybe,the expert should go and tell them they are obviously mistaken.

[Willzzz]

No-one knows what the situation will be in 18 months time, chances are it will still be a mixed picture like it is today.

If you take a look at the recent threads (including this one) you find that I am recommending the 7950/7970 to people with a budget of £250+.
I'm just saying that the 660 Ti isn't as bad as many think it is and for some people it will be preferable.

[Willzzz]

How come the GTX670 is faster then??

I'm not saying the 670 isn't faster, but it isn't better value.
The 670 is 30% more expensive and only very rarely 30% faster, even @ 1600p 8xAA the difference is unlikely to be 30%.

[watercooled]

http://www.techspot.com/review/603-best-graphics-cards/
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...xy-msi-19.html

Batman: 660 Ti beats 7950 Boost on minimum fps 1600p 8xMSAA
BF3: 660Ti beats 7950 @ 1600p 4xAA
BL2: 660Ti beats 7970 @ 1600p FXAA
DA2: 660Ti beats 7950 boost @ 1600p 4xAA
Hard Reset: 660Ti beats 7950 @ 1600p 4xAA
Just Cause 2: 660Ti beats 7950 @ 1600p 8xAA
Shogun 2: 660(non Ti!) beats 7950 boost @ 1200p 8xAA
EU Escalation: 660Ti beats 7970 @ 1600p 8xMSAA

I'm sure you can find more where the 7950 wins, but this is supposed to be the 660 Ti's Achilles heel, this is where the 192bit bus is supposed to cripple performance, this is where it is supposed to suffer humiliating loss after humiliating loss, but yet it is still trading blows with cards that have a bus twice as wide.

TBH it's easy to pick out a few runs where one card is better than the other, but even on the links you posted, I see just one graph (Hard reset 1680x1050, techspot) where the 660 Ti beats the 7950?

[Willzzz]

I double checked, final graph on the page 2560x1600 4xAA the 660 Ti beats the 7950.

As I said, I'm not trying to make the argument that the 660 Ti is better than the 7950 @ 1600p +AA, I'm just saying it isn't beaten comprehensively like it ought to be going by theory. If the 192bit bus was as much of a liability as everyone says it shouldn't win a single one of these benchmarks.

Back in it's home territory of 1080p it can stand toe to toe with the 7950, although leads differ wildly as you go from game to game.

[Willzzz]

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/201...i-2gb-review/8

Even at 5760 x 1080 4xAA the 660 Ti can sometimes beat the 7950 boost and even comes within an inch of beating the 7970.

Really it takes a lot to overwhelm the bandwidth on the 660 Ti, if it can handle 3x1080p now, I'm fairly sure it can handle a single 1080p screen for a good few years to come.

[kalniel]

TBH it's easy to pick out a few runs where one card is better than the other, but even on the links you posted, I see just one graph (Hard reset 1680x1050, techspot) where the 660 Ti beats the 7950?

Wilzz is right - the 660TI does beat out the 7950 in quite a lot of reviews. Not to say there aren't good reasons to go for a 7950 (I went for a 7870 myself) but I don't comprehend the vitriol directed at the 660ti - they've proven that dumb bandwidth isn't the be all and end all and for all their despicable marketing, nVidia have created a card that seems to do really well on what we'd normally consider restrictive bandwidth. To pretend otherwise isn't looking at the results objectively.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/201...i-2gb-review/8

Even at 5760 x 1080 4xAA the 660 Ti can sometimes beat the 7950 boost and even comes within an inch of beating the 7970.

Really it takes a lot to overwhelm the bandwidth on the 660 Ti, if it can handle 3x1080p now, I'm fairly sure it can handle a single 1080p screen for a good few years to come.

A shame Bit-tech still seem to want to use old drivers for both cards and at least looking at the results CryEngine 2 seems bandwidth heavy. There have been performance improvements for both AFAIK. OTH,CPC is so crap anyway especially with their wonky results they get.

To pretend otherwise isn't looking at the results objectively.

Oh,so to put it another way,if someone does not agree with your assessment they are not objective.

Yawn.

[kalniel]

Oh,so to put it another way,if someone does not agree with your assessment they are not objective.

Yawn.

Read what I said instead of imaging things that aren't there.

[Willzzz]

The 12.11 gave a modest 5% improvement in Skyrim, not quite enough to change the result in this case.

But hey, let's say they tied, isn't that a pretty good result at 4xAA 5760x1080?

[watercooled]

Mistake on my part, I'd spammed open a few links, went to get a brew and assumed you'd linked only the techspot page containing Hard Reset. Still, there are only 3 games I counted where the 660 Ti beat the 7950 at all (I count boost as 7950 considering it's essentially a free upgrade, and something Nvidia also do) and in two of those, only at lower resolution/AA settings. Also bear in mind the HC review also has OC'd 660's in the charts and they're using old drivers.

I've seen the 660 Ti beat the 7950 in very few reviews, almost exclusively TWIMTBP titles at lower AA/res.

Edit: maybe this part of the discussion could be moved to a fresh thread, I really don't see it helping the OP any more, unless that's done and they're happy for it to continue as a discussion?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Read what I said instead of imaging things that aren't there.

Yawn.

The 12.11 gave a modest 5% improvement in Skyrim, not quite enough to change the result in this case.

But hey, let's say they tied, isn't that a pretty good result at 4xAA 5760x1080?

What about BF3 and Crysis2?? Oh what about Skyrim with 3rd party mods which are very common. But you would know that wouldn't you?? So at this point,why would you get a GTX660TI over an HD7950 for multi-monitor gaming??

But then recommend the GTX660TI over the HD7950 then for multi-monitor gaming,if you think that is the way forward. Then you would probably still get a GTX670 if you can spend £300+ on monitors.

Still a crappy CPC review using old drivers for both cards. Hardly anyone takes them seriously and not even on other forums.

[kalniel]

You seem very passionate about this Cat, everything OK?