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Thread: PSU 12v Rail Problem

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    PSU 12v Rail Problem

    Hi guys

    I built my system about a year and a half ago or so. i had it all kinda working, a few problems remained but stuff happened and i didn't have time to use it anymore. in fact, i hadn't even turned it on in a year.

    now however i want to use it as ive got back into a game, and i need to sort out the problem that my system has been experiencing all this time.

    system specs as follows

    E6700 C2D
    Gigabyte EP45-UD3LR
    Hiper Type R 730w
    Crosshair XMS2 800MHz DDR2 Ram
    HD4870 Powercolor stock @ 770MHZ

    Overclocked to 3.4GHz (486x7) Ram at 1:1 @ 972 MHz @5-5-4-13

    dual prime stable for 24h, 8hr Memtest Stable

    so my problem,
    my computer will completely cut out and restart within a minute or two of gaming. i DO have both 6 pin connectors connected on my gfx card and i have checked them many many times. gfx card temps are fine

    the only way i can play games is to underclock my gfx card to 620MHz or so, then it is fine

    in my BIOS my 12v Volts are at 12.64 idle which is outside the +/- 5% recommended

    i want to know whether this problem is likely to to limited to one single rail, or whether all of them are likely to be effected. my psu has support for quad SLI by combining two molex connectors into a adapter with a 6 pin connector at the end.

    i do not have this adapter (Hiper call it ExTender connection) is it worth me trying to pick one up off ebay or will it not solve my problems?

    Note the PSU would be under warranty but Hiper have gone bust

    Thank you

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    Anthropomorphic Personification shaithis's Avatar
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    Re: PSU 12v Rail Problem

    Hiper went bust for a reason......I stupidly bought 2 Hipers within a few weeks of each other - costly mistake

    I would check the GPU in another PC @ stock if that's a possibility but it's almost certainly time to buy a new PSU.

    A decent 500w should be ample for that rig as well.
    Main PC: Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 3960X@4.5GHz / Antec H1200 Pro / 32GB DDR3-1866 Quad Channel / Sapphire Fury X / Areca 1680 / 850W EVGA SuperNOVA Gold 2 / Corsair 600T / 2x Dell 3007 / 4 x 250GB SSD + 2 x 80GB SSD / 4 x 1TB HDD (RAID 10) / Windows 10 Pro, Yosemite & Ubuntu
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    Re: PSU 12v Rail Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    Hiper went bust for a reason......I stupidly bought 2 Hipers within a few weeks of each other - costly mistake

    I would check the GPU in another PC @ stock if that's a possibility but it's almost certainly time to buy a new PSU.

    A decent 500w should be ample for that rig as well.
    Thanks for your reply.

    This of course is the logical way to do it. however as i said i went a year without so much as turning on the pc. as such i really dont want to spend another penny on it if i can help it. as it stands i probably on play it for like an hour a week, so a £50 psu (or whatever) isnt really worth it to me. if worst comes to worse i will continue to use it with my gfx card heavily underclocked as it still makes enough frames to make my game of choice playable. it however makes me sad as this was my first ever build, and my first overclock, i spend a long time overclocking the cpu and the ram, its a shame for them to be let down by the gfx

    i wish to know whether its worth me hoping one rail is dodgy and tying to bodge the power down a different line (for a few ££££ worth of cable) or if this is a waste of time / money. note the cpu runs fine during stress testing when heavily overclocked and that runs of a 12v line right? ahhhhh perhaps im just being over optimisting about my bodging skills lol

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    Anthropomorphic Personification shaithis's Avatar
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    Re: PSU 12v Rail Problem

    I wouldn't bother trying. While its £50 for a new one, the rest of the rig is still worth something......it won't be if you fry it all
    Main PC: Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 3960X@4.5GHz / Antec H1200 Pro / 32GB DDR3-1866 Quad Channel / Sapphire Fury X / Areca 1680 / 850W EVGA SuperNOVA Gold 2 / Corsair 600T / 2x Dell 3007 / 4 x 250GB SSD + 2 x 80GB SSD / 4 x 1TB HDD (RAID 10) / Windows 10 Pro, Yosemite & Ubuntu
    HTPC: AsRock Z77 Pro 4 / 3770K@4.2GHz / 24GB / GTX 1080 / SST-LC20 / Antec TP-550 / Hisense 65k5510 4K TV / HTC Vive / 2 x 240GB SSD + 12TB HDD Space / Race Seat / Logitech G29 / Win 10 Pro
    HTPC2: Asus AM1I-A / 5150 / 4GB / Corsair Force 3 240GB / Silverstone SST-ML05B + ST30SF / Samsung UE60H6200 TV / Windows 10 Pro
    Spare/Loaner: Gigabyte EX58-UD5 / i950 / 12GB / HD7870 / Corsair 300R / Silverpower 700W modular
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    Re: PSU 12v Rail Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    I wouldn't bother trying. While its £50 for a new one, the rest of the rig is still worth something......it won't be if you fry it all
    ok fair enough.

    i might keep an eye out, and next time i see a bargin grab one

    what do you guys think is the least i could get away with, presuming its a half decent brand. how many watts and how many amps on the 12v rail?

    in case you cant tell im really tight, dont like spending money on my old tech system lol

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    Re: PSU 12v Rail Problem

    380W with 17-18A on the 12V is a likely minimum provided good quality.

    "HD4870 Powercolor stock @ 770MHZ" is an oxymoron - stock speed is something like 750mhz

    Any of these should be fine:
    http://www.scan.co.uk/products/380w-...ctive-pfc-rohs

    http://www.scan.co.uk/products/380w-...fan-atx12v-v23

    or for a bit of leeway (400W/25A):
    http://www.scan.co.uk/products/400w-...-12v-120mm-fan

    or even more (400W/33A)
    http://www.scan.co.uk/products/400w-...ps12v-v291-psu
    Last edited by kalniel; 16-06-2011 at 08:51 AM.

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    Re: PSU 12v Rail Problem

    4870 is pretty power hungry and will use a fair bit more than your C2D so I would also suspect that's the problem, working when underclocked further implies this.

    Don't pay any attention to BIOS/software voltages, I've found they're often way off when tested with a multimeter (calibrated Fluke before anyone blames using a £5 meter).

    All Hiper PSUs I know of have a single +12V rail, just separated with OCP so this could be the cause of your problems but it would be unusual for it to suddenly start happening. What PSU do you have exactly?

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    Re: PSU 12v Rail Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    380W with 17-18A on the 12V is a likely minimum provided good quality.

    "HD4870 Powercolor stock @ 770MHZ" is an oxymoron - stock speed is something like 750mhz

    Any of these should be fine:
    http://www.scan.co.uk/products/380w-...ctive-pfc-rohs

    http://www.scan.co.uk/products/380w-...fan-atx12v-v23

    or for a bit of leeway (400W/25A):
    http://www.scan.co.uk/products/400w-...-12v-120mm-fan

    or even more (400W/33A)
    http://www.scan.co.uk/products/400w-...ps12v-v291-psu
    not really an oxymoron, the reference 4870 is 750MHz, however the powercolor one is overclocked to 770MHz out the box

    and thank you for your help guys, i will have a proper look at your recommendations later today when i have a bit more time, and will probably pick a PSU up in the next few weeks or so, checking deals and stuff.

    kinda looking forward to getting it, might be able to push the CPU a bit further. i could never get it past 3.42 GHZ no matter how much Vcore i gave the thing, even with a 10 multi, perhaps this will improve things. although im quite happy with the fsb, so perhaps i wont bother

    again thanks guys

    EDIT
    @watercooled

    it didn't "suddenly start happening" its always been problematic, i just never got round to trouble shooting it and blaming the psu before i gave up on gaming

    this is my psu
    http://www.ninjalane.com/reviews/power_supply/hpu-4s730

    and i also have been told before to ignore voltage readings in the bios/everest etc, however as i already have a problem which a PSU problem would fit, im willing to trust it on this occasion

    reading back on this it got a harsh tone. note this was not intended lol
    Last edited by new boy; 16-06-2011 at 12:02 PM.

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    Re: PSU 12v Rail Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by new boy View Post
    EDIT
    @watercooled

    it didn't "suddenly start happening" its always been problematic, i just never got round to trouble shooting it and blaming the psu before i gave up on gaming

    this is my psu
    http://www.ninjalane.com/reviews/power_supply/hpu-4s730

    and i also have been told before to ignore voltage readings in the bios/everest etc, however as i already have a problem which a PSU problem would fit, im willing to trust it on this occasion
    In which case I suspect OCP even more, the PSU is divided into 4 12v 'rails' of 16A max each, so 192W. If the 4870 is drawing all the current from a single rail it could be tripping the OCP, causing the PSU to reset. I still wouldn't pay any attention to the voltage readings to troubleshoot, besides you'd expect the voltage to go down, not up, under heavy load and <1% over spec shouldn't cause this.

    How exactly have you got the card wired up, which connectors are you using, etc?

    Edit: I've been doing some research on this particular PSU and, as if to deliberately prove me wrong it's a dual transformer design. I'll read into it more and see how the rails are divided, maybe one transformer is handling everything so being overloaded?

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    Re: PSU 12v Rail Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    In which case I suspect OCP even more, the PSU is divided into 4 12v 'rails' of 16A max each, so 192W. If the 4870 is drawing all the current from a single rail it could be tripping the OCP, causing the PSU to reset. I still wouldn't pay any attention to the voltage readings to troubleshoot, besides you'd expect the voltage to go down, not up, under heavy load and <1% over spec shouldn't cause this.

    How exactly have you got the card wired up, which connectors are you using, etc?

    Edit: I've been doing some research on this particular PSU and, as if to deliberately prove me wrong it's a dual transformer design. I'll read into it more and see how the rails are divided, maybe one transformer is handling everything so being overloaded?
    the card is wired up in the only way that is possible with the cables i have at the moment.

    it has two 6 pin connecters connected to the card. these 2 modular cables can only fit into two "ports" onto the psu as the other "ports (or sockets)" have a different connector for other cables.

    if i had a 2x molex --> 6 pin pci-e connector then i could possibly bypass one of these sockets and use a differnt one. but i dont so i cant lol.

    its whether its worth me picking up one of these connectors for £1.20 or if its a waste of time.

    i hope ive been clear. i know that each of the 6 pin connectors have there own dedicated 12v rail, but i dont know if these two rails are powered by the same transformer (getting too complicated for me now LMAO)

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    Re: PSU 12v Rail Problem

    I've done a bit more reading and it looks like this PSU is OK provided you don't load it above about 500W, above that ripple goes way out of spec. Also the voltage you see could be about right, it seems the voltage is set high initially to compensate for voltage drop but it should still be in spec even at low loads, the only way to be sure would be to measure it.

    Unfortunately, the download links are bad for the product manual so I can't check rail distribution, I don't suppose you still have the paper manual handy?

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    Re: PSU 12v Rail Problem

    i have got the manual

    i have no idea what bit you want though

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    Re: PSU 12v Rail Problem

    The rail distribution tables/images if there are any?

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    Re: PSU 12v Rail Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    The rail distribution tables/images if there are any?
    errrr all i got is

    output parameter
    +5v 0.5A - 24A
    +12V 1 0A - 16A
    +12V 2 0A - 16A
    +12V 3 0.9A - 16A
    +12V 4 0.1A - 16A
    -12V 0A - 0.5A
    +5VSB 0A - 3A
    +3.3V 0.8A - 24A

    and then i got a table fir output voltage regulation which i cant type out now as i got stuff to do lol

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    Re: PSU 12v Rail Problem

    Never mind, I *think* I've found the distribution info here even though it's not labelled as such and doesn't include the 24 pin. It seems the PCIe and CPU share rails, not the best layout IMO. Using an adapter from the connectors listed Molex (3) and Molex (4) *might* work. No guarantees, of course but cheaper than buying a new PSU if you're not happy about spending more money.

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    Re: PSU 12v Rail Problem

    ok cool. ill pick up an adapter on fleabay sometime

    be nice if it works but if it doesnt, hey its only £1.20

    ill be sure to post results once im done to satisfy your curiosity

    Thanks watercooled and everyone else who posted.

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