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Thread: Which power supply for this system?

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    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    I suspect me-yeah actually means you could use a Thermoelectric Generator on the CPU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator

    A couple of quotes from the wiki page:

    The typical efficiency of TEGs is around 5–8%.
    thermoelectric generators serve as poor heat sinks
    They are only economical when a high temperature (>200 °C) can be used and when only small amounts of power (a few watts) are needed.
    Good luck running your CPU at 200 °C to power a single fan....

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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Good luck running your CPU at 200 °C to power a single fan....
    But then you could use the air flow out the back to turn a generator and make more power....

    Oh no wait!

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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    I think the only really common practical use I have seen for a peltier device is in the picnic cool boxes.
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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    I considered using one to make a sub-ambient water loop once: essentially the idea was to sandwich a peltier between a couple of old heatsinks and have the cold side in the reservoir and the hot side sticking out the top of the case exhausting the heat.

    Not convinced that would count as a "practical" use, mind you...

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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    I think the only really common practical use I have seen for a peltier device is in the picnic cool boxes.
    plenty of uses, if you plug them back into a PSU, and save on mains power usage, with next gen intelligent PSU`s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XupSQyOT6xE

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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    I considered using one to make a sub-ambient water loop once: essentially the idea was to sandwich a peltier between a couple of old heatsinks and have the cold side in the reservoir and the hot side sticking out the top of the case exhausting the heat.

    Not convinced that would count as a "practical" use, mind you...
    there a few water cooling peltier videos on youtube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHFGY32hV7w

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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    Quote Originally Posted by me-yeah View Post
    plenty of uses, if you plug them back into a PSU, and save on mains power usage
    ok, I'll grant it's been a few years since my degree but I'm fairly sure it does not save any power. It will take more to run the peltier than you can get back. no saving in power. none.

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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    ok, I'll grant it's been a few years since my degree but I'm fairly sure it does not save any power. It will take more to run the peltier than you can get back. no saving in power. none.
    it does`nt take any power to run a peltier, this is what you get when you buy a peltier



    you just need to connect the cables to a fan, and put a candle underneath, like in the first youtube video, if you cpu is running at 60c and graphic`s card running at 100c, then peltiers would generate around 200watts, which could go back in the PSU loop, which would probably save 100Mw worldwide every year with cloud being the next world of evolution, then peltiers would also cut down more power use by not needing as much air conditioning

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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    Ah, you are talking about using a Peltier junction to generate power, rather than to cool. Conventionally you apply power to the leads and one side gets hot, the other gets cold.

    However it can be used as a thermoelectric generator, which relies on the temperature difference to generate power. But you need a large temperature difference, and the power generated is very small. So I'm afraid that idea won't work in practice because you still need a way of keeping the cold side colder than the hot side.
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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    put a peltier on the bottom on your heatsink so it is whats creating the contact to your CPU, use most of the heat to generate some power, but you would still need to cool the top of the peltier

    200 watt peltiers do exist http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/mcte...00w/dp/1639732
    Last edited by me-yeah; 15-11-2015 at 01:28 PM.

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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    thermal efficiency of a Carnot engine:

    (Thot-Tcold)/Thot


    efficiency limited by the temp difference.


    the CPU at 60C will rapidly rise to 90+ C without COOLING and shut down or else burn out. you can't simply place a peltier between the gpu and CPU and say problem solved.

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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post

    the CPU at 60C will rapidly rise to 90+ C without COOLING and shut down or else burn out. you can't simply place a peltier between the gpu and CPU and say problem solved.
    I think the idea is to place a peltier on each. The gradient would ideally be between 60C and ambient for the CPU, 80 and ambient for the GPU. You've not actually done any significant cooling at this point though, so in order to maintain the temp differential you'll need active cooling on one side of the peltier (ie you put the peltier inbetween the CPU lid and the HSF).

    However, the efficiencies are such that you'd never generate anything like 200W - realistic temp differential is probably only 10-20 degrees or so at most, and loss of efficiency converting that to power takes another chunk. So the peltier would never pay for itself (in the same way going for gold over bronze efficiency wouldn't, but why let facts get in the way eh? )

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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    to maintain the peltier temp gradient sufficient for it to actively cool the CPU it would need to be driven by electric current. It is not practical to stick the peltier plate shown in the post above and say it will cool the CPU. It will not. You can use the temp between the CPU and ambient, or whatever you stick on the other side, (which he states as being the GPU!) to produce a small electric current, but you can't have both. It's either a driven peltier to force the cooling effect, or a passive peltier to try and extract some heat. But in the latter case what will happen is thermal runaway in the CPU and shutting down/burning out.

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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    It is not practical to stick the peltier plate shown in the post above and say it will cool the CPU.
    In 'the post above' I say you still need active cooling on the other side of the peltier

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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    that won't cool the CPU. just the other side of the passive peltier

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    Re: Which power supply for this system?

    Quote Originally Posted by me-yeah View Post
    put a peltier on the bottom on your heatsink so it is whats creating the contact to your CPU, use most of the heat to generate some power, but you would still need to cool the top of the peltier

    200 watt peltiers do exist http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/mcte...00w/dp/1639732
    200w Pelrier coolers do exist, as you quoted, but they are designed for cooling, not for generation. They are not reciprocal devices as designed. And even if you could, you still can't get something for nothing. Basic thermodynamics.
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