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Thread: Madeleine McCann.

  1. #33
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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkstar View Post
    Is this that sarcasm thing you mentioned earlier?
    ---------------------------------------------
    My comments were not sarcastic, they were a reasonable response to the wannabe bullies I have encountered on here in the short time I have been registered. Sorry you don't like strangers on your forum but I am here...................... Deal with it!

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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy.H View Post
    ---------------------------------------------
    My comments were not sarcastic, they were a reasonable response to the wannabe bullies I have encountered on here in the short time I have been registered. Sorry you don't like strangers on your forum but I am here...................... Deal with it!
    We like strangers here (look in the Welcome forum)... I think that some guys were just suspicious about your intentions and you have responded in a bad way causing some friction...

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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    Jimmy H you seem to know alot about the resort they stayed.

    I dont see how you can say leaving the children alone for half an hour is acceptable, I dont think any parents shoud leave their children alone for any amount of time if there is no one around capable of looking after them.

    Jimmy i personally feel your fishing for comments to put in your newspaper column.

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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy.H View Post
    I am not happy about the persecution of Kate and Gerry McCann by the vultures on some of the forums I have visited.
    you make a habit of this do you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ephesians
    Do not be drunk with wine, which will ruin you, but be filled with the Spirit
    Vodka

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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiM View Post
    I still think that they killed her and covered it up... but I am always coming up with weird unlikely conspiracies... (Please leave my name out if you quote that in the Sun)


    "I still think that they killed her and covered it up"
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    It appears that you have , like many other people who are not familiar with the facts of this case, been brainwashed by the PJ (Portuguese Judiciaria) The oldest trick in the book for any police investigators who can't solve a crime is to find a scapegoat. In this case they found three..Murat, and Kate and Gerry McCann. Remember Colin Stagg? Everyone believed he was guilty too of the Wimbledon Common murder. He was hounded by the police and local community right up until the time he was charged with murder and then acquitted at the Old Bailey. He was fitted up by an undercover police woman. Say no more!!

    Barry George, the alleged killer of Jill Dando was also, in my opinion, fitted up with a tiny speck of FDR (Firearms Discharge Residue) that was supposedly found in his jacket pocket by the forensic lab.
    The crime archives are littered with cases of innocent people being sentenced to life behind bars for murders they did not commit. So let's not rush to judgement in the McCann case. There might well be an Alfred Hitchcock ending.

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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadduckUK View Post
    you make a habit of this do you?
    Yes, but only when necessary.

  7. #39
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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    to expand on that...do you make a habit of finding random forums. asking people what they think of the Maddie case. and then informing them of the "facts"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ephesians
    Do not be drunk with wine, which will ruin you, but be filled with the Spirit
    Vodka

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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbedguy View Post
    Jimmy H you seem to know alot about the resort they stayed.

    I dont see how you can say leaving the children alone for half an hour is acceptable, I dont think any parents shoud leave their children alone for any amount of time if there is no one around capable of looking after them.

    Jimmy i personally feel your fishing for comments to put in your newspaper column.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well, the fish seen to be biting very well on here. I could write a book on their comments, let alone an article. ............ Hello, put me through to the editor please!!

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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiM View Post
    We like strangers here (look in the Welcome forum)... I think that some guys were just suspicious about your intentions and you have responded in a bad way causing some friction...
    ------------------------------------------

    As I have already stated in a previous post, paranoia is treatable.

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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadduckUK View Post
    to expand on that...do you make a habit of finding random forums. asking people what they think of the Maddie case. and then informing them of the "facts"?
    I do try to inform people of the facts whenever possible, yes. I hate to think they were wallowing in their ignorance of certain subjects. It would be fairer to say that I attempt to enlighten them.

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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    any particular reason why you have chosen a subject you "should" have no more knowledge about than anyone else who has followed the story?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ephesians
    Do not be drunk with wine, which will ruin you, but be filled with the Spirit
    Vodka

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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy.H View Post
    I am not happy about the persecution of Kate and Gerry McCann by the vultures on some of the forums I have visited. A basic tenet of any judicial system is that the accused are innocent until proven guilty. So far there has been very little credible evidence that the McCanns physically harmed their daughter so why are so many people pointing the finger at these two decent and respectable parents who made the mistake of leavng their three children for about half an hour or less while they joined their friends in the resort Tapas bar.
    Perhaps because while a legal system might be bound by a presumption of innocence (though some of the organs of some legal systems certainly aren't), people's opinions aren't part of a legal system, and aren't bound by it. For instance, the police don't start from the presumption of innocence. They start from a quest for evidence, develop a list of suspects and then seek to either eliminate or confirm the guilt of those suspects. They certainly don't presume all their suspects are innocent, though they have to act within a framework of what they can and can't do. And that's in an adversarial system. In an inquisitorial system, you have prosecutors that don't presume innocence. It's the underlying principle of how people are treated by the judicial system, not the assumptions that all individuals are required to make in their opinions.

    But, as a fine point, it isn't that people "are", as you said, innocent, it's that they are "presumed" innocent, until found guilty. And, in terms of a legal system, "guilty" is a legal judgement NOT a statement of fact as to whether they did it or not. That's why many, including the British system, decide between guilty and "not guilty", the latter of which is not the same thing at all as innocent, in the factual sense. To put that another way, "not guilty" does NOT mean the accused is innocent. It ONLY means that they can't be proven (to the required standard) to have committed the offence and therefore must be legally presumed innocent. Trials in the UK do not establish innocence, merely lack of reaching the legal standard of guilt.


    You ask why so many people are pointing the finger? Well, not here they aren't. So why come here and stand on your hobby horse?

    But even if they are, people are entitled to their opinions, and providing they're within the law and our rules, they're entitled to express them. Perhaps those that point the finger do so because they consider that if the McCanns hadn't left their kids unattended, Madeleine wouldn't now be missing? They may or may not be right in that view, but I'd bet (again, rightly or wrongly) that a lot of people believe that, based on their actions, the McCanns are at least guilty of setting up the circumstances where the abduction could happen, and that therefore even if not involved in the disappearance (and that remains to be seen), they're responsible for the results.

    Given that the McCann case has had such a high media profile, with the extent of newspaper and TV coverage, you can hardly expect people not to have opinions. To do so would be naive in the extreme. And it has to be said that, for eminently understandable reasons, the McCanns have done everything in their power to keep it in the media.

    If people keep seeing it on TV and reading it in the papers, they ARE going to form opinions, and not everybody will be reasonably enough to withhold judgement until all the evidence is in, especially seeing as the vast bulk of people will never see that evidence, merely that which the media chooses to show and even then, in whatever light and with whatever spin the media chooses to use.

    So why do people point fingers? Because it's a high profile event, and of the hundreds of millions of people that are aware of what happened, some are going to have and express opinions you don't like. What do you expect?


    And one more thing. In any legal system where the burden of proof of guilt is set (correctly) deliberately high, it is implicit that a good number of guilty people will be found not guilty. Even a presumption of innocence doesn't mean people actually are innocent, and it certainly doesn't mean people can't have their opinions about what happened, even if a good percentage of them will be based on ignorance or speculation.

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  14. #45
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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    Excellent post.

    Jimmy.H I believe that whether or not the parents are guilty of the murder and removal of the body of McCann, that they are guilty of gross negligence.

    "Negligence means conduct that is culpable because it misses the legal standard required of a reasonable person in protecting individuals against foreseeably risky, harmful acts of other members of society."

    Leave two children, that young, for any amount of time whilst in a foriegn country is simply unacceptable - it wouldn't have happened to me (and I travelled a lot with my Mother when I was younger) and it won't happen to my children.

    So regardless of whether or not they're cold blooded murderers I can't feel as much sympathy toward them as I might have done, knowing as their child was being "kidnapped" they were swilling down the wine, laughing and joking with a bunch of mates and generally forgetting their parental duties. And now they've paid for it - in the absolute worst way possible.

    The only good that can come from this is that other parents aren't as self centered in the future.

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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazzlad View Post
    Excellent post.

    Jimmy.H I believe that whether or not the parents are guilty of the murder and removal of the body of McCann, that they are guilty of gross negligence.

    "Negligence means conduct that is culpable because it misses the legal standard required of a reasonable person in protecting individuals against foreseeably risky, harmful acts of other members of society."

    Leave two children, that young, for any amount of time whilst in a foriegn country is simply unacceptable - it wouldn't have happened to me (and I travelled a lot with my Mother when I was younger) and it won't happen to my children.

    So regardless of whether or not they're cold blooded murderers I can't feel as much sympathy toward them as I might have done, knowing as their child was being "kidnapped" they were swilling down the wine, laughing and joking with a bunch of mates and generally forgetting their parental duties. And now they've paid for it - in the absolute worst way possible.

    The only good that can come from this is that other parents aren't as self centered in the future.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Please don't get complacent. It could happen to anyone's child whether neglectful or not.
    Remember the old saying, There but for the grace of God, or Charles Darwin, go I.

    Remember also: Jamie Bulger, Sarah Payne,
    Holley and Jessica, and many more too numerous to mention. We must not ride our 'high horses' in cases of this nature. No-one is perfect in this life.

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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy.H View Post
    ------------------------------------------

    As I have already stated in a previous post, paranoia is treatable.
    Its not paranoia... Similar things have happened here in the past... Its a pity that assholeness is not treatable...

  17. #48
    A Straw? And Fruit? Bazzlad's Avatar
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    Re: Madeleine McCann.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy.H View Post
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Please don't get complacent. It could happen to anyone's child whether neglectful or not.
    Remember the old saying, There but for the grace of God, or Charles Darwin, go I.

    Remember also: Jamie Bulger, Sarah Payne,
    Holley and Jessica, and many more too numerous to mention. We must not ride our 'high horses' in cases of this nature. No-one is perfect in this life.
    Oh I agree, Sarah Payne and Jamie Bulger were unbelievbly unlucky, from a parental view. McCann? Lazy. Leaving a THREE year old and a younger child in a hotel room whilst you eat, drink and be merry with your friends is simply inexcusable. I'm from a single parent family (of 7) and have been all over the world - and I've never been left anywhere as my Mom goes off galavanting. It's bad parenting, end of.

    - Obviously it's awful what happened afterwards, but still, they shouldn't have been left - least of all the younger one.

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