Should recreational drug use be illegal?

[Brucelles]

Actually I hope it might be pushed. We are already seeing a large number of alternatives to MCAT.

Maybe this time they will realise the problems of banning something which has such high consumer demand.

I have these bursts of optimism too. I sometimes think that when politicians see the truth about (insert issue here) they will see the light and fight fr the right.

They almost never do though.

[scaryjim]

... I am growing my own two cannabis plants in the south of France ... the police were willing to give me permission, provided the product never leaves my property...

Any stipulations on how many people are allowed to come to your parties, though?

But more seriously, it is good to hear that there are some sensible people in positions of power out there. I'd be interested to know how your crop turns out

[MadduckUK]

[acsdoncaster]

Haha, That's cool.

[Millennium]

Mods, I did a search and wanted to debate this topic, is it ok to revive it?

Cannabis regulation / legalisation is back in the news with the Lib Dems (lol!) backing it. I do think that the criminalisation of drugs is a big mistake for most of them (bar the inject ones and the research chem crap mainly) forcing a huge organised crime black market, the prison industrial complex, etc etc.

I won't go on but I think at a minimum with America moving in this direction, Cannabis, especially regulated cannabis with a low-medium THC and effective amount of CBD, should be legalised ASAP and regulated/taxed. I would love to see this happen in the UK and EU in the next 5-10 years.

What are your thoughts?

edit: recent BBC article. There's a program (maybe radio only) at 9pm tonight too.

[Ttaskmaster]

I do think that the criminalisation of [insert anything] is a big mistake, forcing a huge organised crime black market, the prison industrial complex, etc etc.

How many other things fall into that bracket, though?
I could start with prostitution, leading into human trafficking and the abuse of children, as an extreme example of whare similar conversations have started - Because even when taxed and regulated, people will look to source cheaper prostitution, leading to the other two.
Same for boxing - That's all licenced, yet you still get unlicenced fights.

Actually, the best example I can think of is firearms - They used to be licenced and perfectly legal in many respects. But there were always those 'Bob down the pub' types who could get you a shooter on the quiet, like. Now they're mostly outlawed, the same Bob can still get you the same shooters, through the same channels.

My argument is that legalising, taxing and regulating drugs won't stop the black market and I'd suggest that with such a comprehensive one already in place, it would likely continue in the same capacity and likely on a similar scale, especially if the black market is cheaper than the regulated form.

My concern is that legalisation would lead to more people abusing it. At the very least, legalising use makes that use seem more acceptable and we will get more people driving stoned, even if it's just the passengers smoking it. As is I smell such stuff emanating from single occupant vehicles at least twice a week during the rush hour traffic on the way home.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I don't support legalising recreational drug usage,because people are irresponsible and can't take responsibility for their actions.

Look at alcohol and tobacco,despite all the education,etc people still abuse it and expect to be bailed out by the state,and not admit its their blasted fault in the first place.

I see the same with drugs,even with all the education,people will just abuse them,and then expect the NHS,etc to bail them out. ATM,a number of people might be scared off drugs due to its illegal nature,but if you legalise it more will just abuse it and expect the NHS to step in to help them.

In a perfect society where people were objective,and were logical in their habits it might be fine legalising drugs,since people would look at the side effects,and then modulate their behaviour. Except lots of people won't,then ignore the fact they made the crap decision,then expect someone else to bail them out and blame someone else for their addiction.

In the end in the UK we need to find away around the "binge" culture we have first,before we consider legalising more recreational chemicals. Alcohol and Tobacco are bad enough.

[Lanky123]

I would fully support legalisation (possibly up to much stronger drugs than cannabis) if it were shown that a large part of the market could be taken out of the hands of organised crime.

Given the lengths criminals have to go to in order to smuggle/produce/sell stuff I don't think it would be impossible to sell better (consistent) quality yet price competitive drugs with taxation aimed at funding rehab/awareness/NHS services. Further down the line if illegal suppliers have largely been pushed out of the market you could look at further prohibitive tax rises as we see with smoking.

I don't know if any of the above would come to pass, but I also don't think it's impossible if such a change were well implemented (I'll leave the competence of our political lords and masters for the moment). The starting point (profits going into criminal gangs, large quantity of police time/funding spent combating them) is pretty poor so to my mind the question only needs to be whether an alternate solution could be slightly less bad. Nothing will ever be ideal in a topic like this.

[Ttaskmaster]

Given the lengths criminals have to go to in order to smuggle/produce/sell stuff I don't think it would be impossible to sell better (consistent) quality yet price competitive drugs with taxation aimed at funding rehab/awareness/NHS services. Further down the line if illegal suppliers have largely been pushed out of the market you could look at further prohibitive tax rises as we see with smoking.

I think that's where the idea falls apart, because people have been bringing cheap fags back for their mates for decades, and continue to do so today to the point where the prohibitive tax rises push more business into the hands of the 'criminals'.

[Lanky123]

I think that's where the idea falls apart, because people have been bringing cheap fags back for their mates for decades, and continue to do so today to the point where the prohibitive tax rises push more business into the hands of the 'criminals'.

I agree that there is absolutely a price at which smuggling becomes viable again. But I also think there's a middle ground where taxation can generate revenue but still be cheaper than smuggling can provide. Some funding from taxation could go into improving enforcement etc as well, so the police needn't be quite so stretched. Legalisation also doesn't necessarily mean massive packs of cheap cannabis in duty free.

I certainly wouldn't pretend that there could be no pitfalls in such a system. But if implemented intelligently I think there's potential for such a system to be somewhat better than the status quo.

[Macman]

Just think if it was legal... and taxed... our NHS just might have a bit more money...

[TeePee]

Portugul decriminalized drug use, and it seems to have worked out great...

[Ttaskmaster]

I agree that there is absolutely a price at which smuggling becomes viable again.

That's my argument, though - Legal fags used to be dirt-cheap, but people could always get them cheaper. Now they're insanely expensive, the black market is wide open... The only reason it's not booming is because people started vaping instead.

Some funding from taxation could go into improving enforcement etc as well, so the police needn't be quite so stretched.

You'd need most of it to go on that, TBH.

Just think if it was legal... and taxed... our NHS just might have a bit more money...

The NHS gets PLENTY of money as is.
What they need is the removal of expensive multi-layered management and consultants, so the money can be spent where it actually matters.

[adidan]

Legalise it and tax it. Make money out of what will go on anyway, take much of it out of the criminal world, use some of the taxes to provide programmes for people wanting to give up.

FFS alcohol is far worse than many drugs out there.

[Macman]

The NHS gets PLENTY of money as is.
What they need is the removal of expensive multi-layered management and consultants, so the money can be spent where it actually matters.

These management/consultants will never go. NHS might get plenty but for our population, it doesn't get enough.

I don't think some people comprehend what the costs actually are.

Legalise and Tax drugs and a reform for the NHS from Top to bottom. But I agree... drugs are as bad as alcohol.

[Millennium]

I think a good point was made on UK binge culture, some care would be required there. But if you had a system where it wasn't easy to get enough to overdose / overdo it, and you had a rationing system, combined with 50% taxes, I think it's a win-win. You'd really make a dent on criminality and sensible people with a decent income could have some fun away from alcohol, which is objectively the WORST drug out there.

I'd love to see some legal cannabis culture in the UK, but again, with the strength of some strains caution would be required.

Just my 2 cents