Would you carry a gun?

[Salazaar]

Cars, knives and guns are all very dangerous to human life when misused but obviously one has to strike a balance between how useful they are and the potential to do harm.

Knives are extremely useful in many circumstances and while they have lethal potential, it takes a fair dint of effort and intent to do harm. So we only criminalise their possession in public, see offensive weapons vs weapons of offense.

Losing cars, without any hyperbole, would be catastrophic to modern society so despite the danger we let people drive them but we demand licenses, insurance and training.

Guns have a very few, very specific purposes and most of those involve killing things, and in the wrong hand make it very easy to take human life (even a .22 calibre sports rifle). So we restict them heavily to those who have a genuine, demonstrable need.

How is any of that unfair?

[TheAnimus]

My point is that people who have little understanding of the purpose of them are up in arms about firearms.

its very trying when someone says that he had an ak47..... As I mentioned its like comparing the Thurst SSC to a fricken Prius.

[Salazaar]

My point is that people who have little understanding of the purpose of them are up in arms about firearms.

its very trying when someone says that he had an ak47..... As I mentioned its like comparing the Thurst SSC to a fricken Prius.

Yeah, fair enough. It can go far too far in both directions

[TheAnimus]

The problem is sometimes people go too far. The Soham incident springs to mind. Wasn't it the case that there were all the required laws on the books, but a few agencies screwed up?

As a result now, someone who is going to be going into a school to do a animal encounter (from the zoo) or similar type thing has to have expensive police checks which sometimes take 6 + months, even thou they are never going to be left alone with the children.

[scaryjim]

So are many knives. Hunting knifes are designed for gutting.

... <paraphrase> there's all these guns that aren't "designed" for "killing" </paraphrase> ...

*sigh* yes, let's split hairs over form and function. The fact that a few designs of gun have been modified in such a way as to make various aspects of their use easier, or for "sport", doesn't change the fact that the gun - in general - was designed specifically to kill things from a distance. Knives were created to cut and shape materials, and their use for actual killing (as oppose to preparing prey e.g. by gutting it) is secondary - and frankly if you go hunting with *just* a knife you're likely to come home empty handed (although I'd be very interested to watch the progress you made ).

Name me one practical use of a gun, apart from killing something. A gun propels a small projectile at high speed into a target. That has very few practical applications. The fact that people have modified guns for "sport" purposes doesn't change the basic nature of that gun.

[jim]

Name me one practical use of a gun, apart from killing something.

Ear piercing
Making holes in things when you've lost your screwdriver
Opening locked doors
Using light switches from long range
Digging a well
Cutting back trees
Getting into damn coconuts
Testing decibel-meters
Dismantling an old shed
Cleaning up dog poo
Mowing the lawn
Testing bullet-proof glass

[Flibb]

Main use of firearms in the UK is probably clay pigeon shooting, and target shooting. Both are Olympic and Commonwealth sports. practical possibly, helps me to unwind, then agaon golf clubs are distinctly unpractical, and get used in murders, along with baseball bats, and cricket bats.

[scaryjim]

Digging a well

It'd be a very narrow well, though...

[Flibb]

It'd be a very narrow well, though...

depends how big the gun is

[Phage]

I saw a trench dug by a Vulcan gatling many years ago.

[Flibb]

Name me one practical use of a gun, apart from killing something. A gun propels a small projectile at high speed into a target. That has very few practical applications. The fact that people have modified guns for "sport" purposes doesn't change the basic nature of that gun.

Avalanche prevention, throwig lines between ships, detonating explosives (bombs), target shooting (as an aid to stress relief), birdscaring (you dont have to hit them).

Unless you were around when the first man picked up tools how do you know what knives were first used for? Maybe persistance hunters first carried flints for killing rather than butchery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUpo_mA5RP8

[chuckskull]

Emptying your £1000 second hand two wheel drive car of water after fording a river in Africa.

On a serious note. I'd like to have the legal right to own a gun, although I'd also like to live in a world where myself and everyone else never, ever needed one, but I'm a realist.

I don't think you should be able to just go buy one like in some American states any more than you should be able to just go buy a car without proper testing and instruction. There's no need for any private citizen to own an automatic weapon either, certainly not .50cal machine guns and vulcan cannons, again like some American states.

The insane, immoral and criminal elements of society will always find a way to get weapons. I would rather see a parity of force between them and honest citizens in violent situations. When seconds count the police are minutes away, while it is the responsibility of the government to prevent violent crime, that does not diminish the right of the individual to defend themselves. As people have rightly pointed out you don't need a big gun to be a lethal threat to someone. So almost anyone can use one, it creates an immediate(and that's important) parity of force no other defence can offer.

As I have mentioned in other threads I've probably experienced a lot more violence than the average person, I do not deny for a second this has coloured my opinion. In my experience bad people do bad things to good people all the time, sometimes for money, sometimes for fun, yup fun. They do not care how you are armed, they will be as well armed as they are capable of being.

So long as this is the case and these people exist in this world I'll take the Beretta 92 please. I would hope to go to my grave never using it, but if it ever comes to that I would rather have the chance to survive and keep philosophising on the morality of it. Don't claim it's a perfect solution, but it's not a perfect world.

[scaryjim]

depends how big the gun is

If it's that big it's not a gun, it's a cannon

Unless you were around when the first man picked up tools how do you know what knives were first used for?

Extensive archaeological evidence? Quite apart from the fact that, if you've ever tried hunting anything with just a knife, you'd know it's simply not practical. You have to catch and immobilise the prey first. Using a gun (or a bow & arrow indeed) you don't - you just kill them from a distance.

Realistically, there's a lot less use for a gun than a knife or a car, and killing someone is a lot easier with a gun than a knife or car. So it makes sense that you'd have different laws for them. Bows / arrows, on the other hand, I'd lump in with guns. I mean, you have to be sensible about it...

[kalniel]

Bows / arrows, on the other hand, I'd lump in with guns. I mean, you have to be sensible about it...

They're for hunting scotsmen. Perfect valid

[scaryjim]

They're for hunting the welsh. Perfect valid

ftfy

[pollaxe]

Welshmen in Hereford beware, only the cathedral close on a Sunday is safe!