http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/...watermarks.htm
So is the US capable of this as PSY-OPS?
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/...watermarks.htm
So is the US capable of this as PSY-OPS?
There were reports last week that the content of the video was fake as well:
http://www.aztlan.net/berg_abu_ghraib_video.htm
http://www.aztlan.net/fake_video.htm
http://www.democraticunderground.com...esg_id=1592067
This claim links it with a digital signature to the camera used to take the abu ghraib abuse videos.
Last I heard it was the same camera used to fake the moon landings.
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by TeePee
seriously though
There are conspiracy theories abound on this one, however i have to say the whole unpleasant thing raises some interesting questions..
So TeePee the digital signature matched up with that one too? Sounds implausible but you may be right, I'll wait until the signature thing is confirmed or denied.
Could also mean that bin laden et al are spreading malicious gossip on the internet.
Warfare works both ways.
That is agreed Angus but I have seen the whole video and it is strange to say the least, that was a corpse that the head was sawn off in that video and not a live person, the blood would have gone everywhere if it were from a live bod. Also the tattoos that the alleged Al-Zarqawi has on his hand, they were not there in the video also his prostethic leg.
I would not dismiss it straight off unless you have seen the whole video, which I have, TeePee seems also to have seen it.
Another question, why would someone in the custody of Arab insurgents have a US prison boiler suit on?
Or are these suits given to everyone who participates in a moonlanding mock-up?
Nope, I haven't seen it, not really my idea of entertainment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blub2k
Because the whole point of the killing of berg was in retaliation of the abuse of the prisoners by the allies , hence they gave him the same plastic seat and orange jump suit I would imagine.
If the pics turn out to be fake it would be the biggest story ever imho, personally I don't believe the us would be so stupid as they have too much to lose if they get found out. Thats not to say its not beyond the realms of possibility.
If this turns out to be true... which im doubting, this could cause one of the biggest political backlashes ever. I hope its not true, its not good for the world.
I did not claim it is true, have a look at the headline, I claim that it is quite possible that it is faked, like I said, if you watch the video, you will see that there is a cut where Berg is sitting up obviously conscious to where he is knocked to the floor (obviously unconscious) just before he is beheaded, this is obvious IF YOU HAVE WATCHED THE VIDEO, which for obvious reasons most people wont. There is worse stuff on Rotten.com.
nah didnt say you were. ive seen it and there deffo summit dodgy about the way it zooms, blurs and then cuts.
Can't get to those sites through the company firewall. Could someone outline the main arguments for me? ta
Have to agree... Saw the whole vid...
While it is very disturbing, I too thought the absence of blood was strange. Though I can assure you I wont be watching again to find out
:shocked2:
Below is a full transcript of the article.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenPiggy
Digital Watermarks Prove Berg and Abuse Cameras Were the Same?
Alex Jones' Prison Planet | May 25 2004
There are several postings on message boards suggesting that the digital watermarks on the Berg and Abu Ghraib videos are exactly the same. While at this point we have no concrete confirmation of this, it would fit with other examples of how the Berg execution and Abu Ghraib torture scenes are very similar. The contention is that Berg was killed by the US military as a staged psy-op to distract attention from the torture scandal, an execution blamed on 'CIArabs'.
The following is from a Yahoo message board...
Word is spreading around Kodak Park here in Rochester NY. And will break on national News tonite that Kodak film experts have analyzed the Nick Berg video and some of the Abu Grhaib Prison videos comparing them for certain encrypted recording signatures.
Each video camera leaves a certain signature mark, much like a fingerprint or striation markings on bullets in gun barrels. Same goes for CD-ROM Burners, they leave a trace or type of Cookies on the finished product.
These are tested by computer and not visible by the naked eye. Experts here after lunch have concluded that one of the 2 video cameras used in the Nick Berg "beheading" was also used to film US troop abuses of Iraqi detainees.
THIS is BAD news for BushCorp., Military, and CIA.
The following is from another message board, written by Mark Perkel...
The news story of the millenium
Ok - so - the millenuim is only 4 years old but - this is still one hell of a story.
Friday, new video was released showing Iraq prisoner torture. The most important piece of information in this video is something that you don´t see.
Digital cameras have been built to inclued a digital watermark that identifies which camera took the video.
I am seeing messages on the internet who are saying the people at Kodak who developed the watermarking technology have compared the digital watermark on the Berg video with the new pridoner abuse from Abu Ghraib prison and the digital watermark matches one of the two cameras used in the Berg beheading.
If this is true then it means that Americans killed Berg at Abu Ghraib prison.
We need a digital video expert to verify the digital watermarks to prove this is true.
Anybody?
If anyone can shed any light on this matter please E mail us.
Also GreenPiggy there is another one here which outlines the issues picked upon in the analysis.
Summary
A large number of anomalies surround the life and death of Nicholas Berg. A Jewish man, 26 years of age and a U.S. Citizen, he traveled alone in Iraq. Family and friends described Berg as an adventurer, high spirited and intelligent. A Washington Post report notes, "Berg was a weight lifting enthusiast and amateur comedian who had traveled abroad to help people improve their lives. Among his trips was a visit to the West African country of Ghana, where he taught villagers to make bricks and returned emaciated because he gave away most of his food."
Berg visited Iraq from December, 2003, to January, 2004, and then again starting March 14, 2004. Berg was purportedly looking for electrical contracting work building radio towers. He could not find work, though there was reportedly plenty.
On March 24, Iraqi officials arrested Berg at a checkpoint in Mosul and jailed him, because of his Jewish last name and the Israeli stamp in his passport. (See Washington Post report - reg req'd - or CSM Terrorism & Security update for May 13, which excerpts stories about Berg from various media.) Berg told friends in Baghdad that the Israelis thought he might be a spy. (See Telegraph article, "Beheaded American was arrested as a spy because of his Jewish name.") On April 05, 2004, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military in Iraq. The next day, April 6, Nick Berg was released. On Saturday, May 8, Berg's body was found outside of Baghdad on a highway overpass. On May 11, 2004, a video of Nick Berg's execution, seemingly by beheading, was posted on the Muntada al-Ansar website, which is now offline.
There are conflicting reports about Berg's whereabouts in Iraq. According to an email to the Berg family from Beth A. Payne, a U.S. consular officer in Iraq, the U.S. military were holding Berg. This was apparently for 13 days. Iraqi police denied holding Berg. In contrast, the Telegraph article above notes, "Dan Senor, spokesman for the US-led coalition in Iraq, insisted Mr. Berg was arrested and held by Iraqi police." The timeline of Berg's captivity and the timing of the release of the video are suspicious. If Payne was correct, why did the U.S. military hold Nick Berg for two weeks? Why did the U.S. military deny this?
The video of the killing has many flaws including problems with time skips, audio dubbing, and the characteristics, appearance and speech of Berg and the killers. People from Middle Eastern cultures believe that Middle Eastern people were not involved in this video, based on the mannerisms, accents, behavior and appearance of the killers. A close inspection of the video suggests that Westerners may have been involved.
For a number of reasons, it does not appear that the Jordanian terrorist Abu Masab Al-Zaraqawi, who was voice identified by the CIA (and whose name was on the tape), was involved. He has a poorly functioning prosthetic leg and a hand tattoo, which should have been observed. Neither were. The accent of the speaker in the video was not Jordanian. Why has the CIA seemingly lied about the analysis of Al-Zarqawi's voice and his role in the killing?
Considering the many discrepancies and contradictions noted below, it seems possible that the Berg killing is a poorly crafted psy-ops exercise. This video was possibly constructed by U.S. operatives to impact the extremely volatile political developments in the U.S. and the international condemnation around the Abu Ghraib torture photos. The torture photos are mentioned in the speech in the video, though Berg may have been killed before the photos were circulated.
The majority of the points below are summarized and excerpted from eight summary articles that culled points from news articles and blog posts. (See links at end.) I compared, combined and edited the various points. Further, I added more points based on my viewing of the video (see Wizbang! Blog: Berg video site list) and by reviewing various news articles. I also added a few points based on comments at kuro5hin.org.
Some of the points below are compelling. Some are weak or may turn out to be insignificant or coincidental. This is a work in progress, an early overview of discrepancies. There are too many discrepancies and contradictions to dismiss doubts about the video and the official U.S. stories about Berg. Additional inquiry and fact checking are needed as the Berg story unfolds or, rather, unravels.
Points are included on these topics: Suspicious Circumstances and Timeline; Timing of Killing and Videotape Release; Videotape of Berg, His Decapitation, and Location; More Videotape Anomalies; Identity of Killers of Berg and Their Possessions; and, Berg's Previous Activities and Return of the Body
Suspicious Circumstances and Timeline
1) A Jewish man and U.S. citizen traveling alone in Iraq?
Why did a private Jewish American citizen choose to wander around Iraq by himself? He also had a passport stamp from Israel - very unsafe to travel with.
2) Berg wanted to return home
In his last email on April 6 to his family, Berg stated he wished to return home as soon as possible. The FBI claim he refused an offer of help to get home (perhaps because of danger to get to airport).
3) Three FBI visits
The FBI made three visits to the Berg while he was in custody in Iraq. This suggest U.S. authorities were concerned about more than Berg's well-being. They may have had their own suspicions about what the young American was doing in Iraq.
4) FreeRepublic website listed the Berg business as an "Enemy of the State".
Nick Berg's father, Michael Berg, signed an anti-war petition online and included the business name. (Note that Nick Berg himself was pro-Bush and pro-war.) This occurred a week before his son's second departure to Iraq. As a result of this statement the Berg business was put on a right wing enemies list. The FreeRepublic website listed the Berg business as an "Enemy of the State." This may have been linked to the thre visits by the FBI during Nick Berg's containment by the Iraqi Police and then presumably by (or under supervision) of the US Military.
5) Family sues in U.S. and Berg released next day in Iraq
On 5 April, Berg's family filed a suit in federal court in Philadelphia - contending that their son was being held illegally by the US military in Iraq. The next day he was released and left to get himself home.
6) U.S. custody
Berg's last known whereabouts was in U.S. custody. On April 1, Beth A. Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq, sent an e-mail to the family of Nick Berg. It stated that Ms. Payne had located Nick, and he was currently in custody of the US military. She wrote, "I have confirmed that your son, Nick, is being detained by the U.S. military in Mosul. He is safe. He was picked up approximately one week ago. We will try to obtain additional information regarding his detention and a contact person you can communicate with directly." (See: The Unanswered Questions of Nick Berg's Murder at antiwar.com.) This is distinct from the next point...
7) Denial of custody
The US military has stated that Berg was never in US custody and that he had been in custody of the Iraqi police. The Iraqi police adamantly deny he was ever in their custody. (See again: The Unanswered Questions of Nick Berg's Murder.) If this is so, we have to conclude that either the email from Ms. Payne was incorrect or that the US military has been lying.
8) Apprehension of Berg
Berg was mysteriously captured while still wearing jumpsuit. Either he escaped from U.S. captors or U.S. let him out -- with orange suit and all -- to be immediately apprehended by "terrorists" (before he had a chance to change). Or, the captors somehow came across a U.S. military prison jumpsuit. (More on this is below.) This scenario contradicts the following:
9) Was Berg at hotel several days to April 10?
Staff at Al-Fanar Hotel in Baghdad apparently told The Associated Press that Berg stayed there for several days until April 10. A U.S. consul contract worker checked at the hotel on 4/14 and staff there did not remember Berg.
10) Family blames detainment by U.S. military for Berg's death
The last time the family heard from Nick Berg was on 9 April. He had planned to return home at the end of March. His headless body was found near Mosul on 8 May. "That's really what cost my son his life, the fact that the United States government saw fit to keep him in custody for 13 days without any of his due process or civil rights," Michael Berg said.
Timing of Killing and Videotape Release
11) Berg is killed before torture photos released but video tape refers to photos?
To quote "Fishy Circumstances and Flawed Timelines Surround American's Beheading)":
"me and a friend were discussing recent news events and trying to piece together the information presented to us, thought you might want to look into this further, they said in the news that Nicholas Berg was killed 2 weeks ago (i think), however in the video the culprits who killed him said they were "avenging iraqi prisoner abuse" but those photos weren't released until last week, so my question is how is that even a possible motive if he was killed prior to the abuse photos being released?? maybe i am misinformed but thought id ask the question to someone who would look into it."
12) Text with video mentions "shameful pictures"
The text posted to the website along with the video the translation of the Arabic statement, cites "shameful pictures." Here is a translation of the Arabic statement (at the Northeast Intelligence Network) made with the video: "And the shameful pictures and the news of the evil humiliation of the Islam people men and women in Ghareb 's father prison then where the jealousy and where the zeal and where the anger about the Allah's religion and where the jealousy for the Muslims sanctities and where the revenge for the honors of Muslims and Muslims is in the crosses prisons."
13) Wag the dog timing
There is extremely convenient 'wag the dog' timing at the height of furor regarding U.S. torture of Iraqis.
14) Torture photo timing
CNN poll question: 'Is the Berg killing a reason for withholding any remaining Iraq prisoner abuse pictures?' Bush has been reported to be struggling with question of whether the Pentagon should release additional torture photos. Given that the alleged decapitation of Berg was allegedly prompted by the first wave of torture photos, Bush could now cite 'national security' issues for withholding additional materials.
Videotape of Berg, His Decapitation, and Location
15) Orange jumpsuit
Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue. The orange jump suit "appears" to be identical to the jumpsuits used at Guantanamo. (Compare with pictures at Guantanamo.) The orange jumpsuit was standard US military issue to men in custody. It is unlikely Berg would continue wearing a U.S. custodial uniform if he had been released by the military as they claim. The fact he was still wearing the suit is both anomalous and suggestive. One wonders: Was there an immediate transfer of Berg from the US military to unknown persons, preventing Berg from discarding his US prison garb?
16) No blood at decapitation
When Berg is decapitated, there was almost no blood. If Berg were still alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would have been spraying everywhere. Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's clothes, and even the hand of the 'Arab' who decapitated Berg had no visible blood on it. When the executioner holds up Berg's head immediately following what is represented as an actual decapitation of a living person, there is no significant blood flow from the neck or blood splatters showing anywhere on the executioner.
17) Berg did not move
Berg seems limp just before the beheading. It is not clear if he was moving after the time skip in the tape. While on the ground, Berg's body didn't seem move except in response to the captors movements. Although held down, Berg would have tried to instinctively wiggle and writhe away from captor's grip and use of a knife. (That is unless he was long dead after the cut in the tape.) A surgeon would very likely testify that the beheading did not cause the death.
18) Berg may have been dead just before beheading
The lack of spurting blood and lack of movement suggests Berg was already dead at the time of the alleged decapitation. During the beheading, Berg's eyes are not seen. Camera angle made it impossible to see if Berg's eyes were open or glassy. Berg very probably was killed before the staged beheading. Did the captors have no stomach for the beheading of a living person?
19) Straight cut on the neck
The cut on Berg's neck seems to be too straight to have been done crudely and with such speed by a man wielding a large knife. Anybody who has carved a turkey knows there is something wrong with the supposed beheading. The suspended head looks more like Berg had been neatly beheaded by a guillotine.
20) Is the person in the video Berg?
Some viewers believe the person in the video only vaguely resembles Berg. (Note: presumably the family can and will identify Berg's voice and appearance.)
21) Chair
The chair that Berg was seated in during the filming was the exact same kind as seen in a color photo taken at the Abu Ghraib Prison. One blog mentioned this was "a standard issue military chair." However, these chairs might be abundant in Iraq. (See photo comparisons at link in next point.)
22) Walls and baseboard at the killing site same color as some in Abu Ghraid prison
However, many walls may be similar in Iraq. To quote Marc Perkel (It's The Same Chair!!!! OMFG!!):
"I have some more pics but the walls are the same yellow color and the baseboard is the same color as Abu Ghraib prison."
More Videotape Anomalies
23) The videotape was quite blurred.
24) A quickly disappearing video source?
A Reuters journalist in Dubai first named the Muntada al-Ansar al-Islami website as the source for the video - at www.al-ansar.biz. Although the site has now been shut down, Aljazeera.net had looked at the site within ninety minutes of the story breaking - and could find no such video footage. But Fox News, CNN and the BBC were all able to download the footage from the Arabic-only website and report the story within the hour.
continued.....
25) Tape editing
The video tape is obviously spliced together and heavily edited: Going from a) Berg sitting in chair talking about family, to b) Berg sitting on floor with hooded "militants" behind, to c) blurry camera movement, to d) almost motionless Berg on floor as head cut off.
26) Long time jump in datestamp
There is a significant time jump on tape from a datestamp in the tape of about 2:44:40 to about 13:45:47. There could have been two cameras recording this event. However, there were changes in dress after the fact that would lead to the idea of an elapsed time.
27) Scream dubbed in: Screaming starts while Berg is not moving and before he is touched
Whatever the mismatch in the speaker and video (next point), videotape cognoscenti have said the scream was amateurishly dubbed into the tape. The writer of this K5 article reviewed this issue closely: The screaming starts (at 4:31 - on the copy I viewed, not the time stamp) about 5 to 6 seconds before Berg is touched (at 4:36) and he is moved to his side. He is just sitting there like a lump. While the screaming commences for (1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 seconds), his head doesn't move and his mouth doesn't appear to move (though the tape is blurry), nor does he seem to be physically screaming at any time. Yet the audio plays a loud vigorous screaming. The exact same dubbed screaming continues after the long time jump and a bit of a time gap with silence and after some cutting on the head, during which Berg is not moving. This screaming seems clearly dubbed and is highly incongruous with Berg's lack of activity.
28) Handling of papers on video
"Terrorist" reader flips through pages of 'statement' at one point. He keeps ending up on the same page for awhile. As noted below, this would very likely produce a gap in speech, which is out of sync with the smooth timing of the spoken statement.
29) Audio is dubbed: Tape of speaker and video are out of sync
Audio experts note the tape is clearly dubbed. The speaker recording is different from executioner video recording, due to lag between audio and video.
From "In the Absence of Truth from the White House, Conspiracy Theories Emerge About the Nick Berg Murder" at buzzflash.com:
"Analysis of Execution video -- I propose that the executioner's voice (according to my analysis of listening closely to the audio feed) is not that of the killer's. When listening to the executioner's voice on the tape one first notes that there is a 2-3 second lag in the "time" between audio and video, audio leading. This is consistent with the argument that the video camera and tape recorder are actually two different recording devices. What convinced me that the executioner could not be the "voice" behind the document, read prior to Nick Berg's execution, is the lack of consistency seen between the video and audio recordings, even if the 2-3 second delay is considered. A careful viewing of the video shows the executioner on "several occasions" fumbling with the 2 pages that he held, and at times reading the same page over again -- or so it appears. At least 4 times during the video the executioner is "turning over" pages, holding the pages "apart" as if confused, and all of this adds up to one conclusion. There should have been a "pause" or "2-3 second delay" in the reading of the documents during the physical handling of the documents -- but none is found that is long enough to account for it. Conclusion: The executioner is not "reading" the document. Someone else is. The executioner is trying his best to "lip sinc" the reading, but fails miserably on close inspection. The "smooth" reading of the document is entirely inconsistent (according my analysis of the video) and therefore cannot be the same person that is recording into the audio device."
30) Berg identification - why?
Berg goes to great trouble to identify himself, providing information about his family. Why? To elicit greater sympathy? Or to provide a positive ID. FBI visited Berg family in an attempt to 'verify his identity'. The guy in video looks little like Berg photos provided by family.
31) Woman's scream, instead of Berg?
The alleged scream on heard on the tape has been interpreted as a woman's scream by viewers. (The scream did not seem to this K5 article's author necessarily to be in a woman's voice.)
32) Mistranslation of Al Qaeda connection
On the first day of Nick Berg's execution, it was reported on several major news networks that al Qaeda was connected to the killer's statement, which turned out to be false. The US Intelligence translation still retains this "reference" to al Qaeda, which does not exist. The U.S. government translation of one statement made on the film is: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" This is a falsification. The actual statement urged fellow insurgents to get off their hind ends and do something. One assumes the translator used by the US military is a native speaker of Arabic, so this may not be an innocent flub. Did the US government intentionally link an alleged al Qaeda group into the murder of Nick Berg? Note: the word on tape was al qaed, with quite a different meaning from al Qaeda.
Identity of Killers of Berg and Their Possessions
33) Western body posture and mannerisms of "terrorists"
The "terrorists" have Western-style body posture and mannerisms. They seem to be at parade rest at times.
34) "Terrorists" were fat
Several of the men in the film were fat by Iraqi standards. If they were Feyadeen or Mujahadeen, they probably have been living underground since the first days of the occupation. Tens of thousands of Iraqis have been shown on news stories as they have marched and demonstrated. One would be hard pressed to point out a single fat man among these thousands.
35) White hands of "terrorists"
Some of the "Arab terrorists" have pasty-white hands and (other exposed) skin. One would be hard pressed to find Arab men with pasty-white hands. (See: Nick Berg Conspiracy Theories Abound.)
36) Wrong accent
Al-Zarqawi is/was Jordinian. Arab linguists have said the man posing as Al-Zarqawi did not speak with a Jordanian dialect. Others have suggested the man reading the written statement may not have been a native speaker of Arabic.
37) Change in masks by beheader
To quote a K5 comment:
"The guy who holds up the head at the end has a white mask and no vest. The guy who pulls out the knife and starts cutting is in a black mask. The only guy with a white mask is wearing a green vest"
38) Voice id
Al-Zarqawi's identification by the CIA was based on "probable" voice id of the videotape.
39) Al-Zarqawi's missing leg
Al-Zarqawi was missing one leg. Al-Zarqawi allegedly wears a prosthetic device, according to previous CIA reports. (See: IHT Protrait of Al-Zarqawi.) There is no evidence that the killer wore a prosthetic device. Further, Al-Zarqawi had been outfitted with an artificial leg that did not fit or function properly. He was unable to walk or stand normally. No man in the group showed evidence of such infirmity.
40) Missing tattoos?
Large green tattooed "dots" are known to be on the back of Abu Musab Zarqawi's left hand. These tattoos cannot be seen in the close up video of the execution, though the back of his hand is fairly visible. (See: IHT Protrait of Al-Zarqawi.)
41) Al-Zarqawi dead?
Numerous indigenous sources have said Al-Zarqawi was killed by a US helicopter attack months ago when he was unable to move quickly enough to escape the targeted house. While others managed to exit the house in time to survive, he died in the collapsed building.
42) Gold ring on killer's hand
The man in the videotape who is purported to be Zarqawi seems to be wearing a gold ring. Note: This is a questionable point. To quote Healing Iraq (healingiraq.blogspot.com) as quoted at this angryfinger.org post (Nick Berg Conspiracy Theories Abound): "Islam does not specifically forbid that men wear gold, in fact the Quran and the Hadith have encouraged men to 'adorn' and 'embellish' themselves (dying hair, perfume, etc.) .... the practice of wearing gold ornaments is discouraged by Muslim clerics, "Gold is the ornament of women". Socially it is not acceptable in the Arab world for men to wear gold, although this has changed lately and many young men do (engagement and wedding rings are mostly gold)."
43) Why anonymous?
Al-Zarqawi's face is very well-known. If Al-Zarqawi was the perpetrator, why did he bother to cover it the whole time? If Al-Zarqawi is trying to build a resistance movement, why did he not uncover his face at some point? (If it was another terrorist impersonating Al-Zarqawi, why is the CIA identifying the voice as Al-Zarqawi's?)
44) Iraqi denial of "terrorists"
Iraqis who have seen the videotape on Arabic news broadcasts are universally saying the men in the film are not Iraqis. Are they saying this partly because the speaker does not employ an Iraqi dialect? Where does their certainty come from?
45) Firearms Israeli, not AK-47s
Firearms experts have stated the AK-47 carried by one man was a "Galil." This actually is an Israeli-made weapon that improves on the famous AK- 47. Feyadeen and other insurgents use AK-47s.
Berg's Activities and Return of the Body
46) Berg encountered Moussaoui, an al Qaeda operative, by chance in the U.S. in 1999
The FBI has reported (CNN, FOX) that Nick Berg's e-mail account was used by the "20th hijacker" of 9-11, Zacarious Moussaoui, whose computer held evidence of the 9-11 hijackers (and could not be searched by the FBI field office because of orders from Washington). The FBI interviewed Nick Berg about Moussaoui's use of his e-mail account to send "emails" but concluded that it was entirely "coincidental." Berg had apparently given the password to his e-mail account to an acquaintance of Moussaoui who he met on a bus in 1999 in Oklahoma. (See: Berg's encounter with 'terrorist' revealed.)
47) Berg's first visit to Iraq
Source: In the Absence of Truth from the White House, Conspiracy Theories Emerge About the Nick Berg Murder in http://www.buzzflash.com letters:
"In the Seattle Post-Intelligencer (Seattle P-I), May 13, 2004, A4, appeared an AP article by Robert H. Reid entitled: "Questions over beheading victim's travel in Iraq." That article, which is not online, says: "Berg first worked in Iraq in December and January and returned in March. He was inspecting communications facilities, some of which were destroyed in the war or by looters. During his time in Iraq, he worked on a tower in Abu Ghraib, site of the prison where U.S. soldiers abused Iraqi inmates."
And from The Guardian [Questions Surround Slain American in Iraq] here is a similar reference:
Perhaps Nick saw too much when he was at the prison repairing the tower. And/or maybe that work required close collaboration with the military intelligence onsite so that he learned too much.
Also, today's NY Times article entitled: "General Took Guantanamo Rules To Iraq for Handling of Prisoners" by Tim Golden and Eric Schmitt says:
"When Major General Geoffrey D. Miller arrived in Iraq last August with a team of military police and intelligence specialists, the group was confronted by chaos."
"In one prison yard, a detainee was being held in a scorching hot shipping container as punishment, one member of the team recalled. An important communications antenna stood broken and unrepaired."
48) Work vs. no work?
It has been reported all week in the media that Nick Berg was "looking for business" for his small telecommunications business. Some of his friends in Iraq who were interviewed reportedly said "business was booming." Yet others said Nick was leaving because he "couldn't find any work."
49) Berg traveled at night
It has been reported by people who knew Nick in Iraq (interviews, major networks) that strangely enough, Nick "traveled" at night. Indeed, when Nick was initially picked up by Iraqi Police (checkpoint) he was held because of "suspicious activity."
50) Berg's family was not allowed to view the body of Berg on its arrival to the U.S.
References
The Unanswered Questions of Nick Berg's Murder
by Anthony Gregory, antiwar.com, May 15, 2004
In the Absence of Truth from the White House, Conspiracy Theories Emerge About the Nick Berg Murder
buzzflash.com letters, May 14, 2004
Nick Berg's Iraq Timeline
at AngryFinger.org, May 13, 2004
Nick Berg Conspiracy Theories Abound
at AngryFinger.org, May 13, 2004
Fishy Circumstances and Flawed Timelines Surround American's Beheading
By Alex Jones, May 12, 2004
Fifteen Anomalies Surrounding Death of Nick Berg
from: What Really Happened.com Letters, May 14, 2004
It's The Same Chair!!!! OMFG!!
at Marc Perkel Rantz, May 13, 2004
(Note: The post by Perke has some good points but mixes in a number of clearly mistaken conclusions.)
Bloggers doubt Berg execution video
By Lawrence Smallman, May 13, 2004
Sorry for the size of all that.
i have seen the video, and there are some huge glaring errorsthat stare you in the face:
1, they are cutting this guys head off and he doesnt make so much as a squeek
2, taking a head of a body would produce sprays of blood all over the place, this one nothing,
3, "The Iraqi's" are white?
4, He doesn't struggle or move whilst they have him on the floor, even if he put up no truggle after the beheading the body would twitch, "Berg's" doesn't
5, Listen to them talking :lol: its like a 5 year immitating their language, for example "ei aye aye aye ALLAH" which is right in the middle of the vid.
5, The noticable cuts (3 times in total on the video)
i wont finish this as blub has posted the check list but those above in my post i noticed the first time i saw the video. Something isn't right about this video at all.
Someone has brought to my attention what seemed to be a glaring error which I overlooked, the fact that digital video cameras were not in use in the 1960's when the moon landings allegedly took place. I'd like to reply that most likely the 1960's were part of the conspiracy. I mean, no one actually believes The Beatles could have been real, do they? And have you ever met anyone who actually remembers the '60s?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeePee
Interesting..... start your own thread.
Cheers for the info. Remember when i saw the video it didn't really seem like he was struggling very much. Will be interesting to see what happens
I've seen the video, but I honestly cant tell if its fake or not. The whole white chair and orange prison suit is just stupid, anyone get that plastic white chair and those orange clothes.
what so they are saying terrorists forged the abu grahib thing and then forged the beheading thing?
or the us forged it?
i dont understand?
Pete
Thing is, although it looks a bit 'dodgy', for want of a better word, I've not got a great experience of watching people have their heads hacked off, so I don't know what a realistic beheading would look like.
Still, unlike the anti-War mob, I won’t be pig headed, and simply refuse to believe that this could be fake, because I want it to be true, in the way the anti-War folks did, when they made it obvious they were praying for the Mirror photo's to be real, and were made fools of.
What gets me, is that Nick Berg is according to reports (well, was) a Jewish American. Now, what is the life expectancy of a Jewish, American citizen, walking around Iraq, unarmed? Not very long, I'd hazard a guess.
Was he a CIA spook? All that stuff about email addresses is very strange.
If I had to guess now what really happened, I'd say: Nick Berg was captured, and had his head hacked off by Islamic Extremists, one of whom was al-Zarqawi; under the excuse of revenge for abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American troops.
Second guess - Berg was killed earlier, and then his beheading was stage by al-Zarqawi and his mob, for the obvious shock waves it would cause, and other contractors it may scare off and general destabilising effect.
Next comes the 'Berg was a CIA Spook', 'Berg video was faked by the Americans as a propergander move: as in; look, we might humiliate prisoners, but these bastards hacked an unarmed mans head off', and 'Berg was killed by the same gunman who killed JFK' and any other conspiracy theories.
We shall have to wait and see.
EDIT - Yes, I have seen the video, and I won't be watching it again. Not nice viewing, fake or real.
i cant believe you can actualy get that video
it must be extremly harsh
but i dont know why i jsut want to watch it, to see all this stuff about the guys blood and all that
did they show it on late night news?
Pete
A man having his head hacked off on the late night news? No. I don't know of any network in England or America that will show that at any time.
thort not...
so how did you all see it?
please note i dont wanna see the movie so dont give me any links otherwise ill be tempted to watch it-thanks
Pete
Havent seen the video, nor do i intend to. Also how did people come accross this video? it wouldnt have been aired in the UK atleast without heavy censoring, maybe a website like the one linked to above - although it was only hosted for less than an hour?
I dont see why anyone would want to watch the beheading of a man, and based on the evidence presented I would say you are all lucky it was a fake, as watchign a real beheading would have been a much less pleasant experience I think...
Also this thread is the first ive heard of nick berg, which is stange, considering I watch the news a lot, and stuff...
Vaul you may be unlike the anti war mob, but you are still pig headed, infact you seem to be part of the pr0-war mob.
I am anti-war, in the case of iraq anyway. I would not be against all wars, but lets just simplyfy my anti-war-opinions to wars that involve america, because they are stupid tards, the ones in there milatary anyway. Off topic but can someone suggest why saddam wasnt just assasinated? there were plenty of opertunitys for it, and it would have worked. Americans have learnt nothing from vietnam, and a simple game of cs would educate a person past US army standards.
None prayed the mirror photos were real, I did not belive it atall, I would and still do belive that photos of americans torturing iraqi's are very real though.
You somehow seem to belive anti-war people are those that read newspapers and belive all the crap printed in them without any thought that it could be wrong.
email address stuff - certianly strange, but not enough info to make any guesses from.
There is simply too much evidence against the idea that terrorists could have done that. Howver I do not like to sterotype, this could easly have been done by americans acting seperatly from the military, with there own free will. The video is certianly amatureish, with so many edits and non-consistancy.
I got the video from a website, if you want the link PM, I will not post it.
Call me weird, but I've seen 4 videos of people being be-headed, 2 with an axe, and 1 with a knife, and the berg video, with a knife.
They all look pretty real; I wouldn’t recommend people with a weak stomach to view these videos. In the berg video, u can clearly see the blood from the neck; just like the other video I have seen where a soldier gets his neck slashed, which is real.
I honestly think the berg video is real, and it’s sickening how some people can commit such a crime.
you disagree with WW2?Quote:
Originally Posted by |SilentDeath|
I know what you mean about them being tards, but surely the war is justified in Iraq, in that it ousted a regime which opressed the Iraqi people? supporting the war for this reason is different to supporting America's conduct in the war, which is despicable.
Ive seen the video, and came across it because it was linked to on another forum i post on. Morbid curiosity made me watch it.
I have seen it. Someone pulled it up in school through the "wonder" of google and got it through all the firewalls and security. I couldn't believe that by typing 2 words in Google a guy was able to find a site with the video and download it on a School system.
So I was in the classroom and I hardly wasn't going to watch it.
Not that I enjoyed it, totally sickened actually, but all these points do make a lot of sense. I was just far too shocked to think like that at the time. The audio is CLEARLY dubbed especially in respect to the screaming which I put down to the video being recorded off an internet stream or something but there is VERY little blood and almost no movement from Berg at all. If this a US conspiracy it really with be the biggest backlash of all time.
There is a large pool of blood, maybe the footage u saw was not very clear. There is a large pool of blood next to him, its dark. He is not moving, why would he with 5 people on him?
Who knows what went throgh his head, he might of just accepted he was going to die, and do nothing. No one can be certain what goes through the mind of someone who knows they are about to die.
The video could be 'googled' like any other. Plenty of sites had it, I personally viewed it on the website of a local American radio station. (Or maybe a link to another site on that station)Quote:
Originally Posted by |SilentDeath|
It has not been proven, or even sugested with any degree of certainty that the video is fake. I'd still guess at it being real.Quote:
I dont see why anyone would want to watch the beheading of a man, and based on the evidence presented I would say you are all lucky it was a fake
The incident was all over the news, made front page's on various newspapers.Quote:
Also this thread is the first ive heard of nick berg, which is stange, considering I watch the news a lot, and stuff...
Really me old mate? On what basis?Quote:
Vaul you may be unlike the anti war mob, but you are still pig headed
The American military are 'stupid tards'? Erm... Ok. Still, as long as we know that I'm the pig headed one. ;)Quote:
I am anti-war, in the case of iraq anyway. I would not be against all wars, but lets just simplyfy my anti-war-opinions to wars that involve america, because they are stupid tards, the ones in there milatary anyway.
Really? And you know this how? Of course some wanted to Mirror photo's to be real. As we are all grown-ups, I think we can name name's so long as it doens't get personal. :DQuote:
None prayed the mirror photos were real
Blub2k wanted them to be real. Most like him did as well. Anything to blacken the reputation of the British and American forces, and further their own anti-War stance. I'm not sure if he'd admit to it, as such, but there we go. I'm sure he'll comment, in his own time.
Well, that's because they are. This is proven fact.Quote:
I did not belive it atall, I would and still do belive that photos of americans torturing iraqi's are very real though.
Not quite, but I do believe that, due to a feeling of being overruled (they were not in favour of the war, but it happened anyway) they are more likely to believe what they want to believe. Piers Morgan plastered those pictures on the front of his paper without being sure they were real, did he not?Quote:
You somehow seem to belive anti-war people are those that read newspapers and belive all the crap printed in them without any thought that it could be wrong.
Good post anyway Silent. It's a very interesting situation, whatever the truth.
Way off the mark, I didn't want them to be real, I have the privilige of not being expected as a good patriot to have to support any troops in the "illegal" war and as a result I am allowed to question whether or not they are real. In the midst of all the "schmalzy" crap patriotism that that thread brought up it may have seemed like that just because I alone chose to question the UK line on it. You have nothing to be proud of with what your government has done in Iraq (again ffs) no matter what they tell you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaul
Most like me did? What am I like? You looking for a prize for generalisation of the century? Have most people lived in Saudi Arabia for part of their lives? Have most people lived in 5 countries during their lives? I have, so tell me again who or what exactly are most like me? But then you only refer to my anti-war stance.
You have decided not to question your governments position on this war which makes you less open to anything and you decided like a good patriot that they were faked before there was any evidence offered.
You have your preconceptions about me and dont like my sometimes anti-British stance and that is your prerogative but dont try to tell people what I think I will speak for myself, I could make lots of assumptions about what you think and speak for you but I dont, so afford me the same courtesy.
I am engaged to be married to an English woman so I most definitely dont blindly hate the Brits as my posts may sometime suggest.
What sickens me is people not questioning their government, as a patriot you should love your country and sometimes that entails stopping a government doing illegal things in the name of said country so as to maintain a reputation that goes beyond your lifetime, now that would be real patriotism.
Start asking questions or you become programmed like the military and bend to the will or your masters whenever they call. Question your governments illegal actions dont acquiesce like a stooge, leave that to the professional military.
A few brief words by way of reply, if I may?
You certainly seemed less eager to admit they were obviously fake than most others. The reasons for this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Blub2k
* - Quote from Blub: "I have not yet been convinced and think you have all been had, big stylee."
I only refer to your anti-War stance, as that's what we are talking about in this thread, Blub. It doesn't matter if you've lived in Saudi Arabia, nor does any other fact about your life, to date. I don't know anything about you as a person, all I have to go on, and all I should go on in this forum, is your political views. Forgive me if I have stepped outside those.Quote:
Most like me did? What am I like? You looking for a prize for generalisation of the century? Have most people lived in Saudi Arabia for part of their lives? Have most people lived in 5 countries during their lives? I have, so tell me again who or what exactly are most like me? But then you only refer to my anti-war stance.
As for the Daily Mirror pictures; When I first looked at these pictures, I was thinking - Hmmm, something not quite right about these pictures. They looked a little flat, and a little staged.
When it emerged that I was not alone in thinking this, and everyone was questioning the validity of these photographs, I became very sceptical.
As it turns out, I was right to be so.
Top man, hope it all works out for you; although, if you agree that your posts could give the impression that you 'hate' the Brits, perhaps you should review your posting style?Quote:
I am engaged to be married to an English woman so I most definitely dont blindly hate the Brits as my posts may sometime suggest.
Yes, but you have to realise, that just because you think its illegal and wrong, doesn't mean that everyone else agrees, but is not prepared to question the government.Quote:
What sickens me is people not questioning their government, as a patriot you should love your country and sometimes that entails stopping a government doing illegal things in the name of said country so as to maintain a reputation that goes beyond your lifetime, now that would be real patriotism.
Maybe some of us don't question it as you do, because some agree with what they have done?
See above.Quote:
Question your governments illegal actions dont acquiesce like a stooge, leave that to the professional military.
Cheers,
Vaul.
Right this thread, is a bit, of topic. Im suprised theres no name calling yet and its still a discussion and not a flame war,so lets keep it that way....
Blub2k's belifes, morals, and point of view are also off topic, take them to another thread as I find the topic of this thread something that needs to be discussed...
Vaul - You should learn not to sterotype etc.. even if thats what you think about a person, it will imply the opposite. It is really not a good way to argue or discuss a point.
DeludedGuy - You are very weird, and I think you need counsiling, noone should watch these videos out of chioce.
I was affriad someone would over-simplyfy my over-simplyfication :EQuote:
Originally Posted by Dickie
current war and military efforts are NOT suitable for this kind of situation. Americans do not know how to fight, there military leaders are [word would not be allowed on here] tards.
Saddam and the other leaders in iraq could have been assasinated and all it would have took would be ONE person to do it, and a team of others to support etc... I havent watched too many james bond films, it is entirly possible and should of been the way it was done.
Why did americans lose the vietnam war? they were using open field tactics in a jungle, the enviroment was very different, its not difficult to understand why they lost. You would think they would relise it before loosing so many people.
War in iraq is ILLEGAIL, although there are GOOD resons for it, this does not justify the means it was carried out. You have over simplyfied this point - in other words you are saying if one man kills some one close to you, so you are justified to kill there friends family including women and children and innocent people with nothing to do with it.
I am sure this is not the point you were trying to put accross.
I have just rememebered seeing a video before that I found on kazza. It showed a woman in a chair and a man pointing a gun at her head. She was screeming like you would expect, the gun fired, the wall behind went red and her head went back and stoped moving compleatly. I was sickened by this and hope that it was fake as the dubbed over vioce said it was, and it could definatly have been fake.
Forget the Piers Morgan stuff it is irrelevant, he is a tard, he knows hes a tard, everyone does, yet he continues to be a tard.
Vaul - I think the Brittish presence in iraq is extreemly justified, Britain * N E E D S* to stay in Iraq for as long as the US stays there, if not longer.
British troops are not stupid, they know what they are doing and they are doing it well. the leaders have good plans and are helping a lot to help iraq. Compare Brittish and the US presence in iraq to sending a experienced war veteran with a small knife and a fully armed [quake2 style chain guns included] 13yr old chav into iraq. I think the war veteran would last a LOT longer.
I do hate a lot of americans, ones that match the typical american image/sterotype that I think fits them the best, I know this image/sterotype will not fit everyone in america and this is why sterotyping is not a good thing.
This image consists of people that do NOT know what they are doing, but pretend to for the sake of it. Have annoying monotone vioces and really crappy accents, bush is a good example. Body langage says "i r t3h 1337, j00 nub". body language is best shown in this vid, http://forums.hexus.net/showthread.php?t=20450 notice the movement of eyebrows, cheesy smiling and the way he constantly nods his head like he has nothing better to do.
He thinks he knows all and doesnt consider he knows less than others, essentially bush is a propagander puppet for the nub behind it. His purpose is to convince the population that war is the best thing for america. when 70% of the population are chavs, this is the best way to win the masses onto your side.
Its wrong, its evil, but it works. This is why I hate america - it is corrupt compleatly.
So whats different in Britians government? well we dont have nearly as much conspiracy, or should that be conspriicy theroys?
Britain has evolved, Britain is open. america was rushed, they got things very very wrong the first time round, and now its stuck. Secrecy doesnt work. Propagander doesnt work (well it does, but it is not a good thing for the country - this is my point).
If the people are educated about a subject with no censoring of things that could potentially put them out of favour, then people will learn, and the thing that is right will be obvious. If you let a select few make all the desisions, it is like a family that is inbread. the desicsions turn twised and wrong and you end up with something worse than a dictatorship, for the reson that dictators are easy to remove, and one person can only do soo much. The american government is like a bunch of saddams but each does less evil things, but each thing will mount up and be worse than what saddam has done.
Hope this makes sence, doesnt bore any one (sorry) no offence intended or implyed. Please remember the context of what you read is not always the same as what the writer implys, vaul you need to learn that is the problem with your posts, good idea to add a disclaimer like this to the end :P
edit - also sorry for the mass of incorrect spelling and punctuation. Understand I did GCSE english twice, and got D both times, which will make me sound like an idiot, why should you read a word I say if I cant even spell? thats your chioce....
Perhaps, although I am not sterotyping, I am basing my opinions on his posts and the style of his posts, over a long period of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by |SilentDeath|
Agreed 100%. Have I said otherwise?Quote:
Vaul - I think the Brittish presence in iraq is extreemly justified
No, I don't need a disclaimer. Blub is a big boy, and he can argue his corner just fine, so as long as it doesn't get to the 'Poo poo head! Big nose!' name-calling stage, we can both make our points without the need for disclaimers.Quote:
Hope this makes sence, doesnt bore any one (sorry) no offence intended or implyed. Please remember the context of what you read is not always the same as what the writer implys, vaul you need to learn that is the problem with your posts, good idea to add a disclaimer like this to the end :P
Although, obviously, it is not my intention to offend anyone, and should this occur, I would appologise, as I'm sure, would Blub; but like I say, I don't see any need for that, as this is just two people putting forth their opinions. Its my opinions of his opinions, if you like.
The title of this thread is 'Berg video a fake:This is worth keeping an eye on, is as yet unconfirmed'.Quote:
Originally Posted by |SilentDeath|
You are just as off-topic as me and Blub, are you not?
hummmmm.. well thanks to this thread I just felt the need to download it and watch it....
Got to say, there does seem to be something not right during the reading of the speech, those guys have white hands and the one on the left looks to be standing at ease the whole way through. The actual beheading looks pretty reaql to me, although the audio that goes with it is well dodgy. I think it is certainly possible to recreate somthing like that in cinema with make up and some prosthetics so maybe somebody could have done the same. If it is fake I really doubt it was the Iraqis who faked it. Looks to me also that the guy is dead through the whole thing anyway, he didnt seem to move at all or even blink. Might watch it again tomorrow and see what I think.