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Thread: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    I fail to see why it's ok for people to protest about something them complain when a protest (of sorts) is staged about them.

    /shrug

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    Quote Originally Posted by roachcoach View Post
    I fail to see why it's ok for people to protest about something them complain when a protest (of sorts) is staged about them.

    /shrug
    It wasn't a protest about them, it was a statement to them, namely 'get back in your place'.
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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    I think the throwing of the applications is more jest than anything?
    I'm sure it's funny depending on where your standing....

    If they are able to get someone to do the same job for less, then why on earth should they pay you more! Or is it simply a case of the jobs shouldn't be made in India, and everything should revolve around your life, not theirs?
    In my case it was pure greed. They want to penetrate the Indian market. India does not let non-Inidan companies practice law in India....so they decided if they made enough jobs over there and wined and dined certain politicians enough, they would get their foot in the door.

    Almost 4 Years after they started that process, hundreds of jobs shipped, internal service levels plummeted and still they haven't been allowed to practice law there.


    You will probably point to my story as being one of the exceptions......I think that's just because most never know what EXACTLY is going on behind the scenes.

    I don't understand why people endlessly bitch about jobs been outsourced, its fairer to those who are in recipt of the jobs, often due to cost savings more people get employed there, and as they are cheaper in the first place the money is probably going to have a bigger impact there too as its relatively higher.
    I hope your Punjabi is coming along well with that kind of attitude!

    I can't help draw the conclusion that you feel you had a right to that, that it was somehow yours.... Odd!
    I don't know...13 years of my life put into the company, worked my ass off for them.....only to get shat on! I guess that's a fair deal in your world though?
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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    I think the throwing of the applications is more jest than anything?
    Yes, because the classy thing to do when you're destroying lives for your own gain, and people get pissed about it, is to mock their plight.
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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    I'm sure it's funny depending on where your standing....
    No I just like good humor with everything, I don't think anything should be taken too seriously to make a joke!
    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    In my case it was pure greed. They want to penetrate the Indian market. India does not let non-Inidan companies practice law in India....so they decided if they made enough jobs over there and wined and dined certain politicians enough, they would get their foot in the door.
    So it was pure greed, they wanted to get in to another market? Oh how evil, they wanted to be a provider of services to more people, damn them, greedy barstards!

    How is that not a fair thing for them to want to try and do?
    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    Almost 4 Years after they started that process, hundreds of jobs shipped, internal service levels plummeted and still they haven't been allowed to practice law there.
    Not all ideas work! They tried, enough people believed in it to try, and they will be punished by the market for their failures.
    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    You will probably point to my story as being one of the exceptions......I think that's just because most never know what EXACTLY is going on behind the scenes.
    No I point to your story as nothing remotely remarkable, someone else got your job because they were cheaper and it was part of the firms expansion overseas. Don't see anything wrong with that its probably worked out fairly well for everyone but you, obviously the internal services level is still acceptable because they've not had to 180 on this.
    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    I hope your Punjabi is coming along well with that kind of attitude!
    It's probably russian I should learn, for some reason I'm thinking I'll take Vietnamese lessons thou, learning an oriental is on my bucket list.
    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    I don't know...13 years of my life put into the company, worked my ass off for them.....only to get shat on! I guess that's a fair deal in your world though?
    Oh my, 13 years and they didn't pay you a penny, thats not fair. 13 years of them providing you with a job opportunity where you were fully remunerated on the other hand would have been completely fine and dandy. Thats the philosophical difference I think, I don't believe anyone is entitled to an easy life, I also find these guys ironically distasteful in how they ignore the fact they are in a privileged minority, bitching about how bad their lifes are, and how something must be done about their life, whilst ignoring the majority of the world who has things considerably worse, which they often profit from.

    For me it was the story of the St. Pauls lot setting up a kitchen tent for the protestors, but then refusing to surve anyone they suspect of been homeless. Charity evidently is something they are entitled to, but not that they need to provide. (despite them most likely been in the top 10% of the world).
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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    Yes, because the classy thing to do when you're destroying lives for your own gain, and people get pissed about it, is to mock their plight.
    I wasn't aware the CBOT lot where destroying lives, tell me more about this?

    Oh wait, this is yet another they are 'bankers' or 'traders' and so intrinsically evil every last one of them.
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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    TheAnimus, your avatar now makes sense...
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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    TheAnimus, your avatar now makes sense...
    Sneer all you want
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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    Whilst I still believe the Occupy "protests" are going the wrong way about it, there has been some slow progress it seems.

    In the US they should be protesting at Senators and Congressmen, particularly those that are Republican. Especially if they want to see the rich taxed more.

    As for how wealth spreads through a company, and reading what shaithis said, I always feel that companies make cuts in the wrong places.

    If theyre going to cut pay, cut it as a percentage over ALL staff, not just those below the board room, similarly for bonuses.

    Sure, those at the top lose more, but they also earn more and will notice the least.

    £50 a month off someone at the bottom could be vital, £500 off someone at the top means they can buy 1 less solid gold ball scratcher.

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    Quote Originally Posted by BobF64 View Post
    As for how wealth spreads through a company, and reading what shaithis said, I always feel that companies make cuts in the wrong places.
    Hell yes big firms often make big mistakes on this, but its often a lot easier to see this when your not in the position of the person having to make those choices!
    Quote Originally Posted by BobF64 View Post
    If theyre going to cut pay, cut it as a percentage over ALL staff, not just those below the board room, similarly for bonuses.
    The vast majority of firms do that! Often thou certain groups get excluded from it, if you look at say the BA issue with industrial action, its very hard to always agree.

    What often clouds things is when a company changes, does it need to change is one question? The awnser is an emphatic duno, but having a system which prevents them changing at whim would be brutal. As such what do they do when, going back the last example, they want to get in to India?

    I'd hazard a guess they probably hired more people than they fired in such an expansion, as a result the net effect is more people employed, more peoples quality of life improved by the change.

    So how do you soften the blow for those who are left behind? I remember a couple of years ago when the firm I was working for suddenly closed down, the thing that pissed me off was that I didn't get to finish the project I'd spent so much time, made sacarfices in my personal life to work on. But thats life, I just got epically drunk (my flatmate nearly called for an ambulance, I was so hung over I slept for 30 hours, I think I was also a bit stressed by that old job!). Thing is I just went out and got another job, a bit differen't, and it didn't really work out that well, but hey ho thats life, I ended up changing things radically after a few months!

    I guess what I'm saying is I can't see what you can reasonably expect a company to do, they have a tendency to converge towards a kind of efficiency or greed.

    The problem I find is that far too many people consider themselves "too poor" to save money, too many people live beyond their means, and make bad decisions which they want to blame on someone else. It's this attitude I've found from my first hand engagement with the protestors in London, and from what I've read online. I also find it hard to take them seriously, given their level of hypocrisy.
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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    My problem with top level salaries is, work is outsourced on the basis that the job done is good enough, and the price is cheaper yet when it comes to the boardroom, they don't get people who are "good enough" they have to "pay top prices to get the best". I do believe some people are probably even worth that level of pay, the problem is 99.9% of them are also rans. For many businesses an also ran is good enough. As to bonuses for targets... your bonus is you have a job, and should be trying to do that as well as possible without a bonus payments for doing it right, they need to come back to the real world were people are fired if they do a bad job!

    Outsourcing to other countries can be rather short sighted, from a countries economics point of view, ok yes your company saves a bit of money however you are now exporting money that would be making the "local" economy more active, now everything has to do this to compete, net result more unemployed people and the needs more money in taxes to support them. All this goes to weaken the market into which you are trying to sell your product/service. Ok your not shooting yourself in the foot but enough people are shooting other people in the foot to be a real problem.
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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    Sacks of potatoes are much much much cheaper than upper management types, and likely a lot more effective.

    And if you get hungry you can cut them open and put the contents in a microwave without going to jail.
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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    Sacks of potatoes are much much much cheaper than upper management types, and likely a lot more effective.

    And if you get hungry you can cut them open and put the contents in a microwave without going to jail.
    The last bit was funny, but the first bit heavily discredits your views on the matter.

    As I've said time and again in these threads I don't think anyone is saying that there isn't an issue with the compensation certain people are able to command, the problem is it can't really be fixed easily. The solution is better education, improved social mobility, but most of all people taking personal responsibility for themselves not constantly abdicating it to some higher authority!
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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    No, the solution is discarding brokenomics and replacing it with a non-broken system.
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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    No, the solution is discarding brokenomics and replacing it with a non-broken system.
    Why is it broken? You've never really worked in a large firm, you don't understand the problems that capitalisim in this form nicely solves. But still go on, tell us what the solution is?
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    Re: Occupy Wall Street - What's their goal?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Why is it broken?
    Seriously?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Depression
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-2000s_recession
    And that's just a start. How much fail do you need before you acknowledge something is inherently broken?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    You've never really worked in a large firm, you don't understand the problems that capitalisim in this form nicely solves.
    Mmm, an appeal to authority and a 'lolustoopie', nice. That capitalism solves some economic problems doesn't absolve the fact that it keeps failing spectacularly regardless of how much tinkering is applied to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    But still go on, tell us what the solution is?
    Well, here's a crazy idea, why not base an economic system on, resources, and maybe, the needs of the people. There's a start.

    Now I know you're fine with software which blows up in people's faces, but you can't have people's food supply and shelter being snatched out from under them to service the insatiable greed of the top 1%.
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