Bulter Report? Another Whitewash?

[Zedmeister]

Well, again it looks like El-Presidento Blair managed to get off the hook. Thing is why has no inquiry been set up to examine if the Iraq war was legal?

[Blub2k]

Because that would imply that Blair be arrested and tried for war crimes, not likely now is it?

[GreenPiggy]

The Butler report was never going to name names. The remit was to look at the failures of the systems and not the decisions taken. The government knew exactly what it was doing when it set it up. It should be simply ignored as only one of the 3 main parties is supporting it.

[G4Z]

Totaly agree with greenpiggy, I am entirely unsurprised at the result, they were never going to look at why we went to war, just the "intellegence failures" in the run up to war.

IMO there were no intelligence failures, there is no such thing as good and bad intelligence as you can never say for certain one thing is right or not (unless you go and invade the place to find out...). why did our govt go to war based on intelligence at all? there was no agressive act from Iraq toward us or our allies (that seems to have been the basis for any war in the last 100 years including WW1 and probably Iraq part 1) we made a pre-emptive strike and got it horribly wrong like I knew we would. IMO from what I have seen on various documentarys (panorama ect.) read on the web and in the news leads me to think that all the intelligence was contradictory anyway and I am sure that it WAS in fact cherry picked to sound worse than it was.
for example it was stated somewhere that invading Iraq would actually INCREASE the risk of terrorism in the UK.

Also, a small point on John Scarlet, If I submitted a document that was as flawed as "the dodgy dossier" to the public at my job I would quite rightly lose it, seems as though in the upper echelons of our government you are rewarded for stuff like this (makes sense tho because it did of course further Blairs agenda). It just smacks of nepotism to me.

[Blub2k]

If I ever commit a crime I will INSIST that my father or family investigates it so that we get a fair and balanced result, only fair if they can do it that way innit?

[RVF500]

Is anyone really surprised that this 'report' didn't do anything damaging to the current regime? Blair comes out with his smug grin again like the cat that got the cream. I just wonder what reward Butler will get out of it. After all the spook that fell on his sword over the David Kelly affair got a nice little promotion out of it.

Intelligence is just raw data. An analysis is made and presented. Decisions are made on that analysis. Blaming bad intelligence is simply like saying 'the computer system is playing up' convenient and puts off most people. Some intelligence is harder and more trustworthy than other. But ultimately someone has to make a decision based on an analysis of the whole. That someone is at ministerial level. Not the source that provided it nor the spook that presented it.

[spikegifted]

Look what does it matter? No matter what the report concludes, TB will simply use the same old line over and over again: "Yeah, I know, I screwed up bad... But hey, you can still trust me - I screwed up in good faith! I genuinely believed what I was telling everyone! Too bad it was all crap, as it turned out. But that's intelligence for you, heh..."

[Clingy]

Mmmm. makes me wonder what would satisfy some of you. Any report you dont agree with is going to be a whitewash is it not?

[Byatt]

I certainly don't think it's a whitewash, it's a large indictment on all the politicians who came out and told us they were certain that Iraq had WMD. Butler shows us that the intelligence was incredibly shaky, so it's fairly unbelievable that Blair came out and repeatedly said that there was no doubt that they existed...once again, he's got away with it though.

[Blub2k]

What would satisfy some people I suggest is a report with teeth from a TRULY independent source and not people hand-picked by Blair. Clingy do you honestly think that the report was as hard on Blair as it could have been? It discredits all he said yet doesn't actually accuse anyone of having disseminated it.
Just like the Hutton report, they were only created to keep the public quiet.

[Clingy]

I am sure it could have been harder if it relied upon conjecture and unsubstantiated opinions. It was conducted by a leading lawyer/judge and would naturally have to rely upon facts. Blair was relying upon information supplied by the foremost experts available on the subject. What would you have done? Exposed us all to possible WMD? Bucked the advice given? Took it upon yourself to guess the state of play? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but those who have to govern dont have the benefit of it. It's the preserve of those that dont or never have to govern. I never voted for the guy and probably wont ever vote for him, but I cannot see what he has done wrong here. He stuck his neck out when it would have been easier and more popular to leave the difficult decisions to others. He has suffered greatly as a result and the only doubt I have about his motives are linked to the lucrative North American Speaking Circuit. But then that's an all too familiar route for a war-mongering ex PM

[G4Z]

Clingy, I think what your missing is that all the facts point to Blair "misleading" (I would call it flat out lying tbh) the public over exactly what the intellegence suggested. The Butler report confirms this yet stops short of actually saying Blair did anything wrong.
Come on man wake up! Hans Blix was on hardtalk the other week and his words were "the government removed all the question marks and replaced them with exclamation marks" speaking about the spetember dossier, sounds exactly right to me.

Hans blix said that before the war he thought it was very unlikely that Iraq had WMD, seems odd to me that Blairs sexed up dossier flys in the face of the head UN weapon inspector who has actually been in Iraq for years looking for evidence that Saddam had this capabillity.

Quite honestly if I had been able to make the decision I would have told bush to go stick his little jolly up his **** to be honest. we have just made ourselves a bigger target for terrorists as well as commited to a very costly and protracted occupation of Iraq. I would not be surprised to see an attack on us before our elections next year just like the Madrid bombings, if it happens I for one will blame Tony.

[spikegifted]

It's a case of 'Chinese whisper'...

Imagine the following conversation: Stockbroker A is making a quick client call to one of his wealthy clients on his cell phone. The client was asking the broker about a particular stock, XYZ, he's heard about, but wanted his opinion about it. Throughout the short conversation Stockbroker A was trying tell the client the stock is a dog.

Stockbroker A: "...Look, I gotta go; I'm late. So, I'll have to say goodbye."
Client A: "Sure, thanks for the call."
The client's phone rings again.
Stockbroker B: "Hey, how are things?"
Client: "Ok. Just been talking to Stockbroker A about XYZ."
Stockbroker B: "Yeah? What have you heard and what did he say?"
Client A: "Well, he basically told me that it was a dog, but before he could tell me more about his reasons, he said 'bye' and he was off the phone."
Stockbroker B: "Just like that? Well, I'd say you gotta go with your instincts on this. I don't know much about it, so I can't really say much."
Client A: "Well, thanks. That was no help at all."

Stockbroker B then called a client of his to pitch him some ideas. His client liked none of them. In desperation, the broker mentioned XYZ.

Client B: "XYZ? What is it?"
Stockbroker B: "Well, I don't know much about it myself, but I just heard it mentioned a couple of times. Someone says it's a bit of a dog, but still a buy."
Client B: "If it's a dog, why is it a buy?"
Stockbroker B: "Well, there must be something about it that no-one knows, but even dogs can have good days, right?"
Client B: "Sure."

And it goes on... However, I feel there's something deliberate about the PM's 'case for war'. There's just too much evidence pointing to the fact that the intelligence was suggesting something relatively innocent, but was picked up and spin in such a way that even the most innocent of things became the devil himself!

[Clingy]

And you dont think Hans Blix has an agenda???? And I need to wake up?

Next up you'll be quoting Robin Cook

[Moonshade]

The Butler report was never going to name names. The remit was to look at the failures of the systems and not the decisions taken. The government knew exactly what it was doing when it set it up. It should be simply ignored as only one of the 3 main parties is supporting it.

Totally agree with you! Very good post..

[G4Z]

Clingy, in fact I admire Robin Cook for his stance on the war, can you give me a good reason why I shouldnt?

British polotics makes me so annoyed to be honest, as soon as I can afford it I am going to move somewhere nice, maybe australia (/me high fives dabeenster). Blair and also Howard have both changed thier tune significantly over the last 2 years to reflect changes in public opinion but without changing their intentions. There is no choice to be had, neither seem to me to be decent people and the labour party are pure sichophants scared that they will lose power if they dont tow the line, the only people in government that have my respect are those like Robin cook and charles kennedy who have really stuck to thier guns on this issue and in my opinion were right.