I am Disgusted!

[acidrainy]

This relates mainly to the question... "Should accusers previous information come out in court?"

Imagine this scenario:
An elderly man from a nearby village which I happen to know (69) was in the local pub one night, He tells a few friends about his life savings and retirement plan to live in Australia.

One week later he is charged for raping 2 daughters he had in a previous marriage over 30 years ago... Why? Because the ex-wife of that marriage was sitting in the back of the pub and overheard this conversation of him having a few thousand pounds saved up for his retirement.

This brings me back to the original question. The reason I ask this is that this ex-wife and her daughters have successfully done this to three, yes I said THREE men already!! :/
As this information is not allowed to come out in court, I'm not sure if it will be brought open in the appeal, The ex-wife and daughters walk away with this elderly mans life savings and his dream retirement plan.

So here we are, an elderly man, in jail for "rape" and his life stripped away from him. He can only think about his ex-wife and daughters throwing 60 years of his life down the drain. Even if he wins at the appeal, he probably wont get his money back and the ex-wife and daughters will walk Scot-free.

• No money
• No Dream retirement
• Not guilty!
• This has been done to 2 men previously by the same daughters and ex-wife (they are getting good at this horrible scam now)

I do apologise in front of my next comment for its strong passion.
I understand these are family forums but this particular forum has a fairly adult nature. So I believe you can understand me when I say...

"This is a ****ing outrage!! Why is this poor guy powerless again crooks?" Another failure by the system!


Maybe I'm not getting something here? Maybe I'm missing the point? Please tell me where this guy has gone wrong, other than share his dream story with a few friends in the wrong company? Because apparently he can goto jail under a rape charge for that!

[Big RICHARD]

He is accused of raping HIS OWN daughters?

[acidrainy]

Originally posted by Big RICHARD
He is accused of raping HIS OWN daughters?

Yes, alongside 2 other men who have all been found "guilty" in a court of law :/ This is why I think that this fact should be allowed to come out in court at his appeal.

Whats possibly the worst part is that if the inmates find out what hes in for they may take things into their own hands :/

[DaBeeeenster]

Do you have any links to news stories mate? With all due respect, it's impossible to have an objective opinion without seeing the facts?

How do you know about this?

[Bindibadgi]

Spose for a minute, he actually did?

I agree though, from what you've said its a sick miscarriage of justice. Take it to a local/national paper - theyll listen im sure.

[acidrainy]

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
Do you have any links to news stories mate? With all due respect, it's impossible to have an objective opinion without seeing the facts?

How do you know about this?

I'm not aware of any news link, this person has been the best friend of my Grandfather for the best part of 60 years.

Local knowledge knows that this man is not a rapist, but when has that ever stood up in a court of law :/

[DaBeeeenster]

Originally posted by acidrainy
I'm not aware of any news link, this person has been the best friend of my Grandfather for the best part of 60 years.

Local knowledge knows that this man is not a rapist, but when has that ever stood up in a court of law :/

Yeah but, come on mate, "local knowledge" has no place in a court of law really, does it?

[Richie]

The question here is not whether this guy is innocent or guilty but whether this kind of previous information should be allowed in court cases...... Lets not get confused here and end up down the wrong path

[DaBeeeenster]

I'm not quite sure what the two women would gain from accusing him of rape. They would not be entitled to any of his money, and if found guilty he would be sent down and that's that.

To be honest mate, if he is not guilty then he will just have to stand up in court, say so, and hope for the best. There's nothing the legal system can do about that, is there? If he is given a fair trial then justice will prevail.

You say "They've tried this on twice before". It could just be that the girl was raped by three different people - you simply dont know.

[DaBeeeenster]

A final thought. If the two women are found to be serial accusers, this is also a crime and can be punished if they are found guilty, I believe. They guy needs to go and see a solicitor...

[Saracen]

I'm a little bit confused by all this as there is, so far as I know, no general rule preventing the backgrounds of accusers being brought out in court. These things are weighted in favour of the defendant, on the basis that the Justice system would rather let a guilty person go free than lock up an innocent one.

It is certainly the case that an alleged rape victim can expect a thorough investigation, by the defence, into their background and sexual history. At least in part, this is because rape can (depending on circumstances) be one of the most difficult of crimes to prove, as so much depends not just on whether the act took place, but whether there was consent. It is difficult, certainly, to get the previous criminal record of the defendant shown to the jury, but even that is not a hard and fast rule - it can happen.


As for this specific case, I'm confused. Has the original trial taken place? Has he been convicted?

If not, then the reason he is in jail might simply be that the charge is a serious one, and that he had already stated his intention to retire to Australia, and is therefore considered a flight risk. He may simply be on remand. But there is a major step between getting charged with something, and needing an appeal, and that step is the original trial.

As for getting this information into an appeal, yes, it would go into an appeal.

The original trial would be by jury and they are, by definition, lay people. The judge is therefore the arbiter of what can be brought before the jury, i.e. what they can legally be told. But the appeal will be heard by judges who as legal experts, will apply the law as they see it, and that includes what factors can and can not be considered. They therefore decide what factors are legally relevant to their decision, as defined by statute and, depending on the seniority of the judges and the level of court in which a previous case had been decided, possibly by precedent. They may, depending on relative seniority, either be guided by, or bound by, such precendent.

But you have to bear in mind that an appeal is not simply a retrial with a different set of people hearing it. There will need to be grounds for an appeal. For instance, new evidence, or an alleged mistake by the original trial judge. An appeal is decided on a different set of criteria to the original trial. Essentially, you have to convince the appeal court that the jury would not have convicted had they known of this new evidence, or had they been properly informed and directed by the original judge, etc.

I find the basis of the original assertion very difficult to believe. By definition, this is a crime of which there will be virtually no evidence other than the credibility of the respective witnesses and that can only be the defendant and the victims.

It is precisely these types of circumstances where the past criminal record of the defendant can be brought into a trial, as the jury effectively have nothing to go on other than the credibility of the witnesses, so I find it astonishing that the past history of the accusers cannot be.

[fondie]

^^ what saracen said ^^

the ex-wife and daughters history would come up in court.

[acidrainy]

Originally posted by fondie
^^ what saracen said ^^

the ex-wife and daughters history would come up in court.

I hope it does...

I'm certainly not in a position make an official stand on this, I simply don't know all the "ins-and-outs" of it all.
Thanks Saracen for your post, it does make allot of sense there. As for whether its an appeal or not, my understanding is that it is.

I do know the daughters are seeking compensation for the "mental scarring" they recieved...


Other than that, I've already said pretty much the little I know about the case. I never attended the original trial. At the moment I'm unsure to whether he is serving sentenced-time or as you say being held on remand.

[spikegifted]

This is a very sad story... Sad for the poor guy, who's now warming some jail cell instead of being warmed by the sun. Sad in terms of the behavior of the ex-wife and the daughters.

The even sadder fact is: even if the poor guys can appeal to clear his name based on new information, he's wasted the better portion of his life savings on legal fees... It's a no win situation.