USA and WWI and WWII

[luap.h]

I was reading in a newsgroup where an American stated

I guess you're forgetting WWI and WWII. How many nations did we help rescue then?

it was all in defence of the Iraq stuff and something to do with Bruce Springstein's letter to a newspaper over there.

Now my knowledge of the world wars is patchy and rusty - I just wonder if anyone would consider that a correct statement. Were the Allies in Europe 'rescued'? Did the USA majorly contribute to the liberation of the occupied countries?

[BUFF]

Yes but of course they were late & only came in because they were threatened.
If they had come in earlier then perhaps they wouldn't have needed rescuing in the first place.

[GreenPiggy]

I would consider the statement broadly correct.
The fact that they use that as justification for anything they like is a little bit weak.

[FarmerJon]

TBH their motives in either war weren't without self interest. They got involved in the second world war as late as they could, and i think the same can be said of the first. In actual fact the heros of the second world war (if i had to pick a country), although again it wasn't for selfless reasons, were the russians. Without their involvement in the war the americans would never have stood a chance.

[wilsonian]

in the 1st world war they weren't intrested untill a passenger liners (the lucitainia - can't spell) was hit and sunk carry aload of US civi's. that was one of the main causes in WW1 - but the troops didn't arrive till very late on in the war and it was only the fact that US said they were sending freash troops and the british empire had pulled most it's troops from around the world did the germans surrender.

granted in the 2nd WW they did help us as we're being bombed day and night! the big thing is did the US really help or are they bulls1sting a bit. well bit of both - no doubt if there forces hadn't turned up it would have been a longer battle - but with hilter attcking both west and east fronts that was his down fall.

i feel that with out a doubt if the US didn't help then we would have taken longer to defeat the axis. but can people remember Vietnam, 1st Gulf War, plus other skermishes where the US have so well buggered up. remind them of those and they'll soon shut up

[Dakaras]

Without the US involvment in WW2 chances are Russia wouldnt have stopped at Berlin. Politics stopped the US getting involved earlier than they did, but let that take nothing away from the massive sacrifices that they made during that war. Also it should detract from the Americans that for example joined the RAF in 1939, 1940 who wanted to do the right thing and came to England (sometimes via Canada) to fight.

[Clingy]

Of course they "rescued" us and many others and of course it was through self interest. What would have been the balance of power had the Nazis conquered Europe and Africa (and the Japanese Asia)? What if the Nazis developed nuclear weapons first (because the Americans never had a war to create the need)? The BoB was the first defeat for the Nazis (although they claim it was a draw ). IMHO this battle had the greatest influence on the final outcome.

WW1 is a lot more involved. As late as May 1918 the Germans were close to winning the war. This was long after the Americans entered. Whether their involvement was crucial to the final messy finish which was really more a diplomatic victory that an outright military one who knows.

[DaBeeeenster]

Without the US involvment in WW2 chances are Russia wouldnt have stopped at Berlin.

That's my impression, too. Chances are if the Americans hadn't joined the Allies we would now be speaking either German or Russian. There is evidence that the US and UK armies left weapons for the German army to use as they withdrew from Russia; Churchill was terrified that Stalin would not stop pushing the German army once the lines reached Berlin; there is no doubt in my mind that Stalin also would have "liberated" much of Germany and France.

I've had this argument stated to me (Where would you be without our support in WW2) a couple of times on the neowin politics forums where I also live, and I have to say I do find it insulting. I'd suggest that having to retrospectively justify a war (Iraq) with something utterly unrelated that happened over 60 years ago is probably a good sign that there is no argument left.

[Rave]

As I understand it a considerable proportion of our national debt still dates back to WW2 when the Americans sold us arms, ships etc. under loan arrangements. America pretty much only ever acts in its own self interest. In WW2, their interests were pretty much the same as ours, and of course we should all be grateful for the bravery and sacrifices of the American troops who came over to fight. At the end of the day though, the US isn't some heroic country which goes around saving nations from oppression just because it's the right thing to do.

I've had this argument stated to me (Where would you be without our support in WW2) a couple of times on the neowin politics forums where I also live, and I have to say I do find it insulting. I'd suggest that having to retrospectively justify a war (Iraq) with something utterly unrelated that happened over 60 years ago is probably a good sign that there is no argument left.

Exactly.

Rich :¬)

[Dakaras]

As I understand it a considerable proportion of our national debt still dates back to WW2 when the Americans sold us arms, ships etc. under loan arrangements. America pretty much only ever acts in its own self interest. In WW2, their interests were pretty much the same as ours, and of course we should all be grateful for the bravery and sacrifices of the American troops who came over to fight. At the end of the day though, the US isn't some heroic country which goes around saving nations from oppression just because it's the right thing to do.



Exactly.

Rich :¬)

Well said

Totally agree with Clingy and the BoB being the decisive battle of WW2 without the British mainland as the worlds largest aircraft carrier and the English Channel being the best anti-tank barrier in Europe we would be living under a different regime for sure. If those advantages had not been held in 1940 then Hitler would have had only to worry about the Eastern Front, and for a badly prepared army with inadequate clothing and supplies they came damned close to takning the key cities of the east

[Eddy396]

Very briefly...

Europe would be very different today if it wasnt for the American involvement, mainly because to soviet empire would have expanded to western europe. The 2nd WW would still have been lost by Germany it would just have taken longer and I have no doubt nuclear weapons would have been used.

WW1 there involvment was minimal mainly it was in the transport of raw materials, food. I dont recall many yanks in the battle of Somme, Passchendaele, Ypres or in the Turkish campaigns.

[Flash]

The fact is Russia was more part of liberating Europe than the Americans so that statement is not entirely accurate.

[[GSV]Trig]

Without the Americans yes things would have been very different, the bit that gets me is we asked for help and they said no!
It wasnt until Pearl Harbour that the US got involved.
I know there were Americans that wanted to come over and do the right thing but the US's arrogance is what annoys me about it, "Oh we saved your buts in WW2" etc etc
That arrogance again was seen after 9/11, the US gets attacked and its an all out war against terror, theres plenty of countrys out there that have to put up with terrorism without US help yet when the US itself gets stung they expect all and sundry to be with them on there personal crusade around the world.....

[Tumble]

not many US troops in NI eh?

[Blub2k]

Before, during, and after the Good War, the American business class traded with the enemy. Among the U.S. corporations that invested in the Nazis were Ford, GE, Standard Oil, Texaco, ITT, IBM, and GM (top man William Knudsen called Nazi Germany "the miracle of the 20th century").

While the U.S. regularly turned away Jewish refugees to face certain death in Europe, another group of refugees was welcomed with open arms after the war: fleeing Nazi war criminals who were used to help create the CIA and advance America's nuclear program.

[GreenPiggy]

Blub! you are on 999 posts. Make the next one special