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Thread: ID Statistics and Info kept on yourself

  1. #33
    Hexus.Jet TeePee's Avatar
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    Not everyone has a passport. Birth Certificate and Natioinal Insurance don't have photos.

    And if everyone who had a job had to show their ID card to prove who they were, they couldn't use a false National Insurance number and lie about how much they earn.

  2. #34
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeePee
    Not everyone has a passport. Birth Certificate and Natioinal Insurance don't have photos.
    Yeah, but they're still widely accepted as a form of ID.

    And if everyone who had a job had to show their ID card to prove who they were, they couldn't use a false National Insurance number and lie about how much they earn.
    People don't misprepresent how much they earn by giving their employer a false NI number, because if they did the Inland Revenue would turn around when their employer tried to pay their income tax/NI and say that they'd never heard of them. Benefit fraudsters either work for unscrupulous employers, or they do cash in hand work etc. Again, ID cards solve nothing.

    Rich :¬)

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    Hexus.Jet TeePee's Avatar
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    And if we had ID cards, they would cease to be acceptable, since we'd all have photo ID.

    False ID numbers are often used for short term employment. Ity takes ages for the Inland Revenue to respond to a false number, sometimes more than six months, and when they do the company is often blamed for not checking the ID of the worker more thouroughly. This has happened to my company on several occasions. Also, when checking on cash-in-hand employees or people working for bad employers, the police are often given false details by the employee. If they had to show their ID cards then the benefits payments could easily be stopped. As it is the employee can disappear and simply get another job.

    What exactly is your problem with having your details on file?

  4. #36
    Banned Shogun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rave
    Um, yes you do- passport, birth certificate, National Insurance card etc.

    Rich :¬)
    Appart from the national insurance card, do you carry the rest with you whenever you go out? I certainly don't.

  5. #37
    HEXUS.Metal Knoxville's Avatar
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    Just a thought here, to burn/cut the fingerprint off may seem like your loosing very little and gaining the ability to defeat the system but to do anything that extreme to your finger tips would destroy many of the nerve endings useless thus rendering your ability to feel heat/cold/texture very well.

    I don't think the government will pass this easily though as has been said i think it requires changes to the data protection act and once the illegal immigrants "problem" is exchanged for something else by the tabloids people will see it as an infringment on their rights.

  6. #38
    HEXUS.social member Allen's Avatar
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    Hehehe, I can't believe that you are actually talking about doing something like this, let alone seriously thinking about it! All that just to try and prove a point to people who aren't gonna care?

    Personally, I think ID cards will be great, as long as it's done correctly! It should reduce credit/identity fraud, benefit fraud, illegal immigrants and therefore should benefit us all in the long run. Wether it will or not is a different question though.

    All this nonsense talk about infringement of civil liberties, hahaha, sorry, but hahahaha! I wish I had a better memory, but I'm sure there are other coutries who have to carry ID cards, and there was proof that they worked. Can't remember which country though. Am too tired right now to bother to look.

    Oh, when you hack off your fingertips, or dip them into acid or whatever, get some pics up so I can laugh some more...

  7. #39
    Ex-MSFT Paul Adams's Avatar
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    Surely the only person who would be affected by such an act is yourself?
    Meaning if people can't ID you through the standard system, you can't apply for new services or accounts... just seems like a lose/lose situation (pain & inconvenience that's basically irreversible).
    ~ I have CDO. It's like OCD except the letters are in alphabetical order, as they should be. ~
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  8. #40
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Adams
    Surely the only person who would be affected by such an act is yourself?
    Meaning if people can't ID you through the standard system, you can't apply for new services or accounts... just seems like a lose/lose situation (pain & inconvenience that's basically irreversible).
    No- if the government introduce a system that penalises me for not being fingerprinted when it's impossible to fingerprint me, then I'll take them to the European court of Human Rights. I'll claim I accidentally tripped in my kitchen, and fell onto a hot electric ring or something.

    Got your rippingly fast Swedish broadband going then Paul?

    Rich :¬)

  9. #41
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeePee
    What exactly is your problem with having your details on file?
    It's the first step on the road to a totalitarian state. I prefer democracy TBH.

    Rich :¬)

  10. #42
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shogun
    Appart from the national insurance card, do you carry the rest with you whenever you go out? I certainly don't.
    No, and the proposed legislation won't make it compulsory to carry and ID card. What's your point? I take one of those items with me when I need to identify myself, otherwise I don't take them.

    Rich :¬)

  11. #43
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knoxville
    Just a thought here, to burn/cut the fingerprint off may seem like your loosing very little and gaining the ability to defeat the system but to do anything that extreme to your finger tips would destroy many of the nerve endings useless thus rendering your ability to feel heat/cold/texture very well.
    I'm aware that this would be a last resort, I'm not relishing the prospect, don't worry.

    I don't think the government will pass this easily though as has been said i think it requires changes to the data protection act and once the illegal immigrants "problem" is exchanged for something else by the tabloids people will see it as an infringment on their rights.
    Fingers crossed.

    Rich :¬)

  12. #44
    Senior Member SilentDeath's Avatar
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    The skin is grown on the inside, gradually it flakes off. Anything done to the outerlayers would only be a tempory fix - as it would flake off and be replaced by normal skin.
    I cant remember exactly how skin grows, however to get permenant change it would have to be genetic modifications - how about skin cancer? hold onto some UV-A CCFL tubes for a few hours, the UV-A will mutilate the dna in your skin cells and you will have ever-changing canerous-fingerprints. Cant remmeber if skin-cancer spreads, if it doesnt, then its probably preferable over cutting your fingers off, or killing layers of skin (burning/acid etc...) - and effectivly covering your hands in blisters.

    Grafting skin over the top would last longer, be less painfull and not kill your nerve endings, but I doubt you would consider it permenant enough for the effort/cost (although you can quite easly do it yourself, if you do some research first...)

    Temporary ways would be better, use some glue to fill the gaps in your prints.
    Last edited by SilentDeath; 14-08-2004 at 07:44 PM.

  13. #45
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    Pretty major burning requiring multiple skin grafts would probably change your present fingerprints un recognisable but you'd probably end up with something that was just as good to identify you .

    I know somone who was involved in serious bomb incident and this person had very serious burns ove his hands etc and now his skin is very badly scarred. I dont know about fingerprints but it looks like they wouldnt be anythink like normal ones.

    Anyway Rave I really dont think it would be worth it (although I cant quite work out if your serious ). You might think you may not need that kind of sensitivity in your fingers now but you never know what you might want in the future. Anyway it would mean no posting on Hexus for a while while your fingers healed. Surely you couldnt endure that

  14. #46
    Hexus.Jet TeePee's Avatar
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    Sorry, I think I took this thread a little too seriously, when it's obviously meant to be a joke. I will try to work on my sense of humour.

  15. #47
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    I am serious- sounds like it isn't a very practical plan though.

    Rich :¬)

  16. #48
    Ex-MSFT Paul Adams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rave
    No- if the government introduce a system that penalises me for not being fingerprinted when it's impossible to fingerprint me, then I'll take them to the European court of Human Rights. I'll claim I accidentally tripped in my kitchen, and fell onto a hot electric ring or something.
    So long as they offer alternative methods of identification I guess it won't matter - iris & facial recognition are there for fallback, and while not perfect when taken in combination they might suffice.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rave
    Got your rippingly fast Swedish broadband going then Paul?
    Oh yes
    Just gotta get the account transferred into my girlfriend's name - ironically it's an ID issue, as to have even a fully functional bank account here in Sweden you need a "person number" which I'm in the process of applying for (the company handling my relocation cocked up so it'll be a couple of months yet).

    No person number = no subscription services.
    So no TV, no Internet, no landline phone, no mobile phone (except PAYG), have to carry my passport to be able to buy stuff with my UK credit card... I don't exist in Sweden yet!
    (They have used the card/PIN system for over 10 years, and had a national ID system for many, many years.)

    Just got to see if I'm close enough for the 100Mbps service in my apartment - got an RJ45 port next to my door and it's feeding me a nice 10Mbps line right now (for £23/month)

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