Swedish broadband, huh? What do ya use Paul?Originally Posted by Rave
Swedish broadband, huh? What do ya use Paul?Originally Posted by Rave
Love, Peace and Linux
Bredbandsbolaget, but I have no idea what to do with all this bandwidthOriginally Posted by Moonshade
Should come in useful when I want to work from home, once I get my VPN access approved - though I do only live an 8-minute walk from work anyway, LOL!
~ I have CDO. It's like OCD except the letters are in alphabetical order, as they should be. ~
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Oh, bredbandbolaget, I thought about getting that before . Well, I'm gonna look through all that because I don't want Telia ADSL..:/ too slow for my taste .Originally Posted by Paul Adams
Well, at least it's working fine, huh?
Love, Peace and Linux
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3568468.stm
A good argument there against ID cards, what you dont seem to realise is that it is the innocent people that should be worried about their rights to privacy etc being infringed. I'm with Rave all the way on this, the rest of you like lemmings off the edge of the cliff.....not good.
What really surprises me is that the people here working in security would actually trust these systems further than logging in to a home pc, you should all know how dodgy biometrics are and how easily they are faked.
It'll be minority report next.
The Cow by Ogden Nash
The cow is of the bovine ilk;
One end is moo, the other, milk.
Originally Posted by Rave
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I am a physician, trained in surgery. I can tell you that there are several ways to remove or alter fingerprints to make them useless as identifiers.
A retinal scan can be defeated with a fogged set of contact lenses (easily done by soaking the lens in acetone for a few seconds and then quickly washing it with lens solution. Your vision will be really bad with the lenses but only for the few minutes you are subjected to the scan. It is impossible to do a retinal scan on an awake, unwilling person. All you have to do is move or blink or look away. It is just a photograph after all.
All methods of fingerprint removal/alteration involve scarification of the dermal ridges of the fingers and palms. This is necessarily painful because of the rich innervation of the hands. However, it is not necessary to damage the hands severely in the process. No great loss of sensitivity or ugly scars need result; indeed, a glance at the altered hand would not reveal any big changes.
For the untrained person the use of chemical burns, complete excision of the skin, and lasers are probably not good options. However, heat burns are perfectly acceptable if carefully done. A better option would be the use of a Bovey (high frequency arc generator used to coagulate flesh in surgery) or a Hyfrecator (much like a bovey but designed to burn off skin tags and warts in an office setting).
With some injectable anesthetic (plain Lidocaine 2%) infused into the area to be treated (do not inject more than 7mg at one time), one would use a 10 power magnifying loop (jewler's loop) to identify and mark with a fine point marker each point of identification on the fingerprint. (You must study what these points are of course but they are the delta, the center of the print, each island, split, ending, scar, dot, y, etc. on the print. On a typical finger tip there would be 35 to 50 of these points. Fewer such points exist on the palms and finger shafts.) You would then apply sufficient electrical energy with the arc (or a red hot icepick if you are careful not to burn too deeply) to the point to coagulate the flesh for about 1/8 inch around the points.
Apply a dressing with Elase or some similar antibiotic/enzyme mix to the area treated. Take a large dose of hydrocodone after surgery and keep taking it for three days afterward. This will hurt like hell! Healing will take 6 weeks. Wear gloves to protect the healing hands until the skin is strong again (this takes 3 months.)
The burns will leave shallow scar craters about 3/32 inch in diameter on the fingers and make any identification impossible if you are careful to get all the essential points burned.
Nerves not in the burned areas will be fully functional after the surgery. Very little loss of sensation is expected.
I suggest you do one hand at a time. Hard to function with no hands. By all means experiment a bit with the technique prior to doing a large area. Be very careful not to burn too deeply in joint areas. Remember to treat all the areas where there are pressure ridges (sides of hands, heel of palm, finger tips, etc.)
The various governments of the world cannot be trusted to know who everyone is, where they are, what they are doing, etc. Can you imagine what Hitler would have done with such information? Well, guess what, there are leaders now in power who would do worse than Hitler. Just ask any Christian how safe he would feel in an Islamic state that had such technology.
Governments will, I predict, eventually implant an identifier microchip in everyone, use face recognition computers/cameras, computer wiretap technology and other techniques to make slaves out of the entire human race. Already in the Department of Justice in Washington,DC all employees have a chip implanted in their wrist and are scanned and tracked all the time while at work. Luckily, I will be dead before it happens but it will happen soon. Fight the bastards if you value freedom!
This crap about "homeland security" is just an excuse to suppress the citizens. We don't need homeland security -- we need someone to catch and imprison the assholes who run around the world hurting and killing people, people like Osama and George Bush... It is totally illogical to make the citizens of a country like the USA be fingerprinted when the terrorists are not citizens here.
My you are a cheery character
I wouldn't worry about it *too* much, look how disasterous virtually every big government IT project has been, odds are it'll never get implemented properly anyway..
The other alternative is to move elsewhere (/me strokes his Canadian Citizenship card )
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Thanks a lot for the info DR.K.
I don't want to move Stoo, this is my country, I've lived here all my life and I won't be compelled to present myself for cataloguing.
Rich :¬)
"I am not a number, I am a free man!"
I've got to admit, with the blunders in the past over various things (Someone using my NI number for example) I hate to imagine what sort of cockups could be made with a system of that nature ("No, your ID informs us that you are person x, not person y, go straight to jail, do not pass go, do not collect £200")..
I'm not opposed to ID cards in general (most of us carry more than enough info about our person to positively ID us anyway), but biodata etc is a step too far.
Fingerprints are one thing, but how long before they store your DNA? There's not a lot you can do about getting rid of that..
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Exactly. In fact I have nothing against ID cards per se, I can see that there might be benefits to replacing passports, driving licences, NI cards etc. with an all in one card which can simply be updated as and when it's needed. It's the national database which I thoroughly oppose, and the idea that you will be compelled to register for the card (and forced to pay for it).
Rich :¬)
Yeah, that extra bit - "oh by the way, you'll have to pay for it too", was a major sting in the tail. If it's going to be compulsory (Which it will be eventually, despite what blunkett says..) then it should be provided by the government like the current NI cards are.
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I carry an ID card around everyday for work anyway, so having a Gov on aswell aint a problem... me having to pay for it is damn cheeky! You can bet it'll be a stupid amount too.
DR.K very interesting read!
I think I know the perfect tool for doing this now. CCFL inverters. The output is about 1.8KV and so is plenty high enough to burn small holes in the skin, doesnt hurt too much and I tryed it last week (to find out what a shock feels like) and the burn marks are still there.
So first you need an inverter, these cost about £2 from www.ebuyer.co.uk.
Next you need to cut off the CCFL tube. One wire - the ground, you should strip and wrap round the finger.
You MUST wear gloves on the other hand, to prevent a shock accross the heart! 1.8kv will be enough to kill you!
Then attach the other wire to a very fine needle and insulate it compleatly with layers of heatshrink apart from the point.
Im going to try it
But you should probably wait for someone to say very bad idea before you do
Last edited by SilentDeath; 24-09-2004 at 12:14 AM.
OK, so the fact we'll have to pay is a little bit annoying, but in the interest of safety, I don't mind. As long as it's not too much.Originally Posted by Rave
But may I ask, WHY is it so bad for you that your info is held on a database? It already is held in all different places all over tha world, you info is probably stored on loads of computers, so why is one more such a problem?
I'm not trying to start anything, but I just really wanna understand why you're SO opposed to it that you're prepared to try and remove your personal identification, i.e. your fingerprints which are unique to you.
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