Sensitive Thread

[G4Z]

This is a family forum. Please remember that.

joke might be in bad taste, but I would have to agree with blub here, Lets face it when you have sex there are certain times when you are gonna be more or less "willing" to stop, he said "give me a minute", to me that sounds like he is at the money shot and if she was a decent enough girl she would have let him finish (one way or another) However, I also think that if she had clearly stated I dont want to do this please stop, then yeah he should stop, is it rape though if he doesnt? I wouldnt say so unless she maybe shouted at him or tried to push him off. I mean who here has had sex with their girlfriends when she maybe couldnt really be bothered (or asleep maybe...?), she gets a bit bored and says "I wanna go home soon" well, to me that just sounds like "hurry up" not "stop now". Hell I have even had sex when I couldnt be bothered myself, dont count myself as raped though...

[Galant]

sorry to be insensitive but...etc

Let's not use that kind of talk on a subject like this please.
.....................


I brought up the point about male sexuality to say that I don't like the idea being presented that a girl can/should feel fine about giving consent, or getting sexually involved with a guy, and then change her mind. To me that's a completely stupid and dangerous position. It promotes a careless, "don't really think about it" attitude, and perhaps gives girls a false sense of empowerment in such situations.

If a girl decides she really wants/needs to stop, then she should make it quite clear, and he should stop. However, this is only going to work in a situation where the two people care about one another, and one another's feelings. This wasn't rape, this was a girl making a stupid decision, putting herself into a situation she didn't fully consider, and having to go through with something which it turns out she didn't really want to in the end. He didn't force himself onto her, she invited him. Her problem that night was with the invitation, not the guy.

Whilst there are probably some valid scenarios, I think I have a problem naming as 'rape' a situation where sex begins with consent and leads to a change of mind.

[G4Z]

Galant, I agree with you mate, you are entirely correct as far as I can see, hence the flippant comment. I really dont think we are discussing rape here, whatever this is it probably needs a name but it isnt the same as rape imho.

[funnelhead]

Well i have to say that if you are asked to stop then you [stop].

Ok this is the Hard bit: Imagine you were having sex with a girl and you wanted to stop, but she just told you to shut up and kept on top of you . (shes a big laass) I don't know, maybe she starts talking the crazy, maybe you shes just insulted you, maybe you realise it's the girl that just slept with your brother.

Maybe you thought she was on the pill and she's just told you she isnt. If she then continues .....gets pregnant..... and takes you to court for maintenence..... you'd appreciate having the legal right to withdraw consent at any point

So i think you can withdraw consent at any point.....However....this law will need Human interpretation - if you have two drunk / underage people having consensual sex, then suddenly consent is withdrawn.....as to whether thats the same as a rape assault - i think not.

A new classification needed.....?

they have 1st / 2nd degree murder...... could be applied to rape i suppose.

[G4Z]

funnelhead, do you think that in this case the girl cleary stated her wishes?

I personally think it was her responsabillity to tell him to STOP if thats what she wanted, instead she just said sommat like "I want to go home soon"

[Moonshade]

Hm, in this story it seems like she wanted it for a start, then kinda changed her mind..but everything went down slowly as it seem. But that she needed to go home all of a sudden in the middle of it, that speaks for something according to me. He should've you know waited and asked her if she really wanted to go further with it. "Just give me a minute" Isn't the answer she should get from that.

Well, I know that some people who ends up in a situation like that might remember something about their childhood so for them it's a really big thig even though it doesn't seem like that for anyone else. Let the story rest and you'll see what is going to happend.

And I don't think a girl Must say no, very clearly or something! Or that she has to say it like 3 times before it counts like a no. I this situation, yeah she might have won the case if she said no. But what if this John said "Just give me a second" to that too. I mean if a girl was about to have intercours with any of you guys here..wouldn't you check up what was wrong if the girl suddenly told ya: I need to go home, over and over again?

Sometimes is to scary to say no! This wasn't a violation situation or anything but maybe she didn't want him to think that she was just a whimp by saying No to the whole thing. Instead she might have tried to get his attension in other way..like telling him she needed to go home.

I saw this movie with my class, I dunno the real title in English but it was called "Accused" in swedish. It was a movie in the 70:th's with Jodi Foster. And she got raped on a flipperboard by 3 different men. And she didn't say no, she didn't really fight that much..
So when she ended up in court they asked her if she tried to show someone in that room that she didn't want to. And she said something like: Well, I didn't want them to do that. Then they asked her if someone heard her say: No (loud and clear). She said..well, not really.

So those guys were out free, just because she couldn't really say no. Even though she came to the hospital afterwards and was beaten up.. :/. And there was a guy who called from a payphone that night telling the police that a women got raped. And when you saw the film, you could see that she was a bit drunk and one of the men were too (although not all the three of them, just one and the bar was filled with people) and you could see her hitting on him in the beginning. Then she said, I need to go home. And he said: Oh, no you don't. Took her to one of the flipperboards and ripped her pants of and raped her. And then he told another guy, now it's your turn..and in that way three different men raped her.

So, I think this is sick in a way, I mean you can be so terrified of saying no! The episode Laura was in wasn't dangerous or something but what if she was afraid to say no because she had ended up in troubles before because she refused to do something. You can never know before, can you?

And I think that a smart guy would have asked this girl: What's the matter. If a girl all of a sudden said: I need to go home, three times. When she before seemed to want to have sex with him!

I know that you can be terrified, you shouldn't judge a case like this just because she didn't say the word: No.

[Knoxville]

So, I think this is sick in a way, I mean you can be so terrified of saying no! The episode Laura was in wasn't dangerous or something but what if she was afraid to say no because she had ended up in troubles before because she refused to do something. You can never know before, can you?

And I think that a smart guy would have asked this girl: What's the matter. If a girl all of a sudden said: I need to go home, three times. When she before seemed to want to have sex with him!

I know that you can be terrified, you shouldn't judge a case like this just because she didn't say the word: No.

Its not just that she didn't say the word no, I need to go home could imply boredom, that he needed to hurry up or simply that she'd noticed the time. It doesn't say in what tone she'd said it but it can hardly have been a scream or he'd have said something other than "give me a minute". Yes you can be scared to say the word no but its either that or lie there and do something that your not enjoying and don't wanna do, already made my thoughts on this fairly clear tbh but I still say that had they been sober it would've been a completely different story but if a guys drunk and nearing as it was put earlier "the vinager strokes" its gonna take more than "i need to go home" to get his attention in any meaningful way.

[Moonshade]

Its not just that she didn't say the word no, I need to go home could imply boredom, that he needed to hurry up or simply that she'd noticed the time. It doesn't say in what tone she'd said it but it can hardly have been a scream or he'd have said something other than "give me a minute". Yes you can be scared to say the word no but its either that or lie there and do something that your not enjoying and don't wanna do, already made my thoughts on this fairly clear tbh but I still say that had they been sober it would've been a completely different story but if a guys drunk and nearing as it was put earlier "the vinager strokes" its gonna take more than "i need to go home" to get his attention in any meaningful way.

Maybe, if they would have been sober then he would have paid attention. But it's not that easy/simple. Okay you could say that it's not good just lie there and do something that you don't enjoy!

Hm, well since none of us were there it's hard to tell how she said it or how he replyed it. So either one of us can say something. I'm just telling you that it could have been like that. I don't think a girl must say the words no, just to make folks think it was a rape. It's too difficult.

What about if you're both drunk and one of them says that she has to go home and he has sex with her without her wanting it, it's that nothing?

Omg...I'm being very biased on this question, sorry..I shouldn't write here..maybe...

*getting away*

[Knoxville]

No its not nothing but as you say none of us were there and we can only interpret things in our own way and from what I've read it doesn't seem as clear cut a case as it could be because of her wording. I think I said earlier that women shouldn't have to say no but its not the only option, "I don't think this is a good idea" or something similar is clear enough to tell the guy to stop yet not as hard as just saying No.

[Moonshade]

No its not nothing but as you say none of us were there and we can only interpret things in our own way and from what I've read it doesn't seem as clear cut a case as it could be because of her wording. I think I said earlier that women shouldn't have to say no but its not the only option, "I don't think this is a good idea" or something similar is clear enough to tell the guy to stop yet not as hard as just saying No.

Yeah, that is right. You're right.
I'm so sorry for my behaviour in the other post, maybe I was to complaning. But as I said before I'm being biased and it's hard not to be.

[Galant]

Women shouldn't be told that they have the right to give consent to a guy for sex - start having sex - and if they change their mind part way through, then the guy has to stop immediately. It's an unreal situation. The whole of life isn't about legal 'yes and no's.'

They should be told that before they get anywhere near sex they should think hard about the whole thing. About the situation they put themselves in.

If a girl gets attacked and raped then I'd almost want to see the guy emasculated. But if the girl chooses to have sex with someone who's drunk and/or whom she doesn't really know/care about, then the guy shouldn't have to face a rape charge. The girl needs to face the reality of the decisions she makes. The difference between a girl being violated and having a bad experience because of a poor choice, is massive and absolutely vital.

If a girl is in the situation that she is with someone whom she loves dearly and knows, let's even say married to, and then at some point she decides needs to stop (pain/health problem, or something else), it would seem to me that she would make that quite clear to the gentleman (perhaps even with a reason), and because he knows her and cares about her, she stands a great chance that he will stop.

As far as the reason of changing moods or whatever, I'm sure if you ask around many wives have had sex with their husbands at times when they weren't absolutely desiring of it - guys generally have a greater drive in that area - but they wouldn't call that rape, nor would a court I imagine. They gave consent, even when the mood might not be there, or when it changed. Mood change is not a valid reason to accuse someone of rape.