Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

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Originally Posted by j1979

Fair comment! But I thought NZ was "terra nullius" or empty of people, before the Maoris

The giant moa roamed and top predator was the haast eagle. But if you have a link to evidence of people before the Maoris I would love to read and learn about it. I love this type of stuff.. Find it fascinating.

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Well it's muddy.

Firstly there's the fanciful theories of Greek/Egyptian/other settlers but these never get presented with any credible evidence SFAIK eg http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-a...ectid=11086095, and http://news.tangatawhenua.com/archives/18030. So let's kick all that into touch and forget about it.

Secondly, and more credibly, is the debate as to the Moriori. Polynesian/Melansian peoples who definitely lived on the Chatham Islands (and part of NZ wider dominion). Pacifistic, non-violent, and deliberately invaded, killed and enslaved, banned from intra-marrying, and forcibly assimilated by the Maoris in the 1830s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_people

Debates as to whether they were on NZ mainland before the Maoris have raged for at least the last 100 years. People side for and against and there's never been a hard definitive answer SFAIK, but the state museums I went to in NZ stated they were there first. Now Wiki says this is discredited in the 1960s, but again, the state museums in NZ I went to this (21st) century were stating they were the first settlers of NZ, as were several books I read on NZ during my travels. It all gets rather political as the Maoris depend on them not being there to get a lot of the privileges and claims they lodge to the NZ government. If a government study supports Moriori it is jumped on as anti-Maori, so one of those classic cases where a truly independent study of great detail is required. But getting both sides to commit to accepting its findings will be a something of a problem.

Whether or not the Moriori were on the main islands first, it is clear that the Maori did to them far worse than the British did to the Maori. Therefore it is hard to have much sympathy for the Maori's and their beef with the British (now NZ white) settlers. They're now going so far as to claim the seashore and seabed belong to them. All of it. WTF? http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/video/34...ore-and-seabed
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/p...DLM319839.html
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/law-of-t...ore-and-seabed

http://cs540108.vk.me/c408831/v40883...XX-MGVuXT8.jpg

Russia deserves a better leader!

:( The planet as a whole needs a total shake-up where this sort of spending on sport &c just goes on & on unchecked - nationalistic egotistical one-upmanship. (Not to mention $6m for New Year fireworks in Dubai.. just to be the biggest, highest, blah blah. And we have people homeless on our streets this weather but we can afford fruity flavoured bubbles or some such for New Year.. :mad:)

Anyway glad you have checked in was wondering how things were going, are you actually back?

So the Ukrainian "government" has now banned mobile phones, from anyone that has a signal within the protest, this is after their new "protest" law (taken from Putins Russia)... they send an SMS to the phone saying...

"you are a criminal, and your phone is banned"

phone lines being cut in Kiev, friends in the suburbs have reported that the internet has been very intermittent. And one friend of my wife has said her internet has been down for the last 2 days. Friends are reporting snippers on the roofs of Kiev and that certain people were not killed with plastic bullets but precision shots. No direct proof yet on this, but if I get any photos I will post them. I'm in the UK at the moment.

Police in certain cities (west of Kiev) are openly supporting the protesters, and the government is aware that the police in the capitol, could turn and join the protesters. Russia are ready to support their puppet (yanukovych) and send in troops. Putin waiting as he doesn't want to cloud the sochi games and have a PR disaster.

This started as a protest for the EU trade agreement, It's now a fight to stay outside of the next iron curtain.

The people of Kiev must win this fight! Yanukovych is a criminal as is Putin, and should be stopped, arrested. I am shocked by the BBC's coverage, they are not reporting the true facts, and the disregard for human rights. They state there are counter protests... Yes there are, these people are paid!

gluded to the TV at the moment! supposed to be going back to Ukraine in April, but driving there this time! should be interesting :)

Driving !?
How long does that take ?
Btw who was the president before yulia who was poisoned by dioxin ?

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Originally Posted by Phage

Driving !?
How long does that take ?
Btw who was the president before yulia who was poisoned by dioxin ?

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viktor yushchenko. poor guy.

Yer, going Amsterdam > Berlin > Warsaw > l'viv > Kiev > Sevastopol. We will get some sleep in hostels on the way :)

should be about 35 hours of pure driving on clear roads but, I have heard from friends that buses full of titushki (yanukovych thugs) are operating in western Ukraine causing trouble in the now police-less oblasts. This was 3 days ago, so I presume / hope they should have disappeared now.

My wife is from the Russian side of Ukraine (crimea) and she supports the protestors, but here brother thinks they are all terrorists. :rolleyes:

I think Ukraine can pull through this but it all depends on Putins stance. If he stirs it then who knows what can happen.

Just as a counterpoint, in the past year Russia and Japan have been making slow but sure headway towards finally resolving the issue of the disputed islands and properly ending WW2.

Do I like / trust Putin - no. I'm also aware he may be caricatured by the press as a macho bully in the same way Dubya Bush was caricatured as a retard. A little bit true but also dangerously trivialising politics to personal insults. People like that don't get to power in a vacuum.

My great grandfather fled Odessa 100 years ago. Ukraine can pull through.

What happened to yuschenko ? Where is he now ?

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Originally Posted by Phage

My great grandfather fled Odessa 100 years ago. Ukraine can pull through.

What happened to yuschenko ? Where is he now ?

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He was fleeing persecution?

Not sure what happened to Yuschenko, he probably decided it's not worth it.

some videos

Yanukovthch getting hit with an egg, a fake reaction many footballers would be proud of. look at his face when he is explaining how it was a scarey and dangerous attack :D.. they authorities thought they had confiscated all video evidence of the "attack"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd_9IS7sABA

The next video is more serious.. don't watch if sensitive.
it shows a man with a stretcher trying to help a young boy, getting shot :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2zYvCVkBeY


the news stating at the moment Putin may indeed stir some trouble.

My best guess that Yanukovthch's "escape" will be pushed / propagandised as a present escaping while under siege and this is a full coup. The internet is censored to a degree in Russia, and he is a dictator so if he wants to push this point of view he can.

Reports (unconfirmed) from friends in Crimea is that Yanukovthch was arrested 2 hours ago in Sevastopol. Take that with a huge pinch of salt.

http://vk.com/video29220740_16760785...f7e8ecb7b3b2a8
this is a state TV tribute to those that died.

RIP to all Ukraine's heroes

http://ukrainestory.com/

The blog is up now. I will start to really ramp up the news stories, now that the Ukraine situation is really deteriorating fast.

http://ukrainestory.com/wp-content/u...-troop-map.jpg

Image courtesy of http://www.zerohedge.com

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-28354787

:(

Thoughts go out to the families of the survivors, and hopefully we won\'t be walking into massive war.

Yea i heard it got shot down

oh that\'s not good :(

not good at all :(

RIP the whole plane!

Words cannot describe how Angry I am at the Russians, this little war between Nations has turned for the worse, Russia will pay for this.

It\'s sad it has taken more deaths for this to happen, Action