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Thread: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

  1. #49
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: MH flight shot down over Ukraine

    There is a lot of speculation it was a BUK system. These have a very restricted operation range, so if so, must have occurred within Ukrainian borders. Most MANPAD systems are un-able to hit something that's in an airway.

    Posts have been removed, but it's widely reported these were posted by one of the pro-separatist groups
    on their VK
    http://oi58.tinypic.com/29gmnah.jpg on their twitter

    The guts of the VK post, is claiming that they shot down an an-26, a turbo prop transport, used by Ukrainian military.

    This is really going to be a question. The BUK system is speculated mostly because it appears that Russians gave them out like goody bags, even using them in one case to repay a debt to Finland, but Finland doesn't consider them op.

    The electronic targeting of the BUK is primitive and almost certainly unlikely to have the newer mode-sierra transponder. As such a blip for the 777, vs an An-26 would be similar. However, the ceiling for the An-26 is about 10,000ft below where the MH flight would have likely been.
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  2. #50
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: MH flight shot down over Ukraine

    Forgot to say, the VK post, is still available by google webcache....

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...-57424472_7256

    Given the timing of the post, it would have to have been an incredibly fast stitch up to be a fake.
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  3. #51
    Senior Member j1979's Avatar
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    it's shocking.

    The flight was from Amsterdam. I feel sorry for all the families. RIP to all the victims.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Forgot to say, the VK post, is still available by google webcache....

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...-57424472_7256

    Given the timing of the post, it would have to have been an incredibly fast stitch up to be a fake.

    the photo on the VK post is of Igor Strelkov / Igor Girkin the separatist leader.

  4. #52
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: MH flight shot down over Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    the photo on the VK post is of Igor Strelkov / Igor Girkin the separatist leader.
    But is that his real vk page? Or just a parody?
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  5. #53
    Bows out! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: MH flight shot down over Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by csgohan4 View Post
    Words cannot describe how Angry I am at the Russians, this little war between Nations has turned for the worse, Russia will pay for this.

    It's sad it has taken more deaths for this to happen, Action
    Iran Air Flight 655 was shot down by an Aegis cruiser over Iranian airspace in 1988(one of the most advanced air defence systems in the world at the time) and the Soviets shot down Korean Air Lines Flight 007 in 1983 and nothing really happened.

    Then there was the Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 shot down in Ukranian airspace in 2001 by an errant S200 missile during a live fire excercise and the Aerolinee Itavia Flight 870 shot down in 1980 by what is suspected to be a French missile. Anything much happen about those two either??

    Who paid for those??

    It will be all political wrangling with people attempting to win browny points,and then a few years later,everybody forgets.

    In fact the KAL 007 was the only which was dragged out for a while TBH,but then it was the Cold War,a bit like now,right?
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 17-07-2014 at 07:11 PM.


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  6. #54
    Senior Member j1979's Avatar
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    Re: MH flight shot down over Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    But is that his real vk page? Or just a parody?
    No idea :/

    I feel another Moscow propaganda war coming though. as they always seem to do, they will wait a few days for the cloudy facts to come in, test the water, then Putin will say something, followed by a bucket load of misinformation.

    either that or they will finally distance themselves from the separatists... they will stop calling them freedom fighters and start calling them terrorists.

    queue 1 million conspiracy theories.

    jm2p

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    Chillie in here j.o.s.h.1408's Avatar
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    Re: MH flight shot down over Ukraine

    Either way the plane got shot down. Terrible.

  8. #56
    The Old Fox csgohan4's Avatar
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    Re: MH flight shot down over Ukraine

    Sadly and realistically cat is right, nothing will happen just some outrage, in a years time it will be forgotten, places into the Wikipedia pages and left to rot. How sad the world has come today, self preservation
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    Senior Member j1979's Avatar
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    Re: MH flight shot down over Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by j.o.s.h.1408 View Post
    Either way the plane got shot down. Terrible.
    Yep, it's horrible, so many innocent people. :/

  10. #58
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    Re: MH flight shot down over Ukraine

    If its a Buk system,the Russians can get attempt to wrangle out of any involvement since Ukraine has earlier versions of the system from Soviet times.

    For example,the Ukranian military was seen transporting some Buk systems in the conflict area:

    http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...193/story.html



    Ukrainian government forces maneuver antiaircraft missile launchers Buk as they are transported north-west from Slavyansk, eastern Ukraine Friday, July 4, 2014.
    That is from nearly two weeks ago.

    Expect,lots of wrangling to happen with more rhetotic from both sides.


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    Chillie in here j.o.s.h.1408's Avatar
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    Re: MH flight shot down over Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by csgohan4 View Post
    Sadly and realistically cat is right, nothing will happen just some outrage, in a years time it will be forgotten, places into the Wikipedia pages and left to rot. How sad the world has come today, self preservation
    Not sad. But what can u and I do about it? Nothing. Blame the people in power. They can do something about it. It's not how the world is like. It's how certain people are like.

  12. #60
    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: MH flight shot down over Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by j.o.s.h.1408 View Post
    Either way the plane got shot down. Terrible.
    Well, yes and no.

    An aircraft has crashed. That is terrible.

    But...

    It is still speculation over whether it was actually shot down, although given the geographic location and military situation there, it is high on the list of possibilities.

    I have little doubt that if it was brought down by a SAM, the evidence will be available from imagery, and that may pinpoint the likely launch point, but until then this is still speculation.
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    Chillie in here j.o.s.h.1408's Avatar
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    Re: MH flight shot down over Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    No.

    p 'lane has crashed. It is still speculation over whether it was actually shot down, although given the geographic location and military situation there, it is high on the list of possibilities.

    I have little doubt that if it was brought down by a SAM, the evidence will be available from imagery, and that may pinpoint the likely launch point, but until then this is still speculation.
    Lots of evidence already suggests it's been shot down.

    So yes it has. They are figuring out by who and what

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    Re: MH flight shot down over Ukraine

    Personally I think it is time the UN got involved and sent in peacekeepers.


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  15. #63
    Senior Member j1979's Avatar
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    Re: MH flight shot down over Ukraine

    Russian TV is showing interviews from the separatists saying they saw a Ukrainian fighter jet shoot the plane down. So they shot the Ukrainian fighter down from the ground.

    Unbelievable, yet plenty will believe.

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    Re: MH flight shot down over Ukraine

    Classic blame game going on. I suspect eventual strong evidence, given the area's conflict, will determine how the events unfolded and who's responsible.

    I'll be interested in the nationality composition of the airline passengers particular if it includes Chinese and US. This could shape future events and add pressure on the Russians to end the conflict in the region.

    Malaysian Airlines has had incredible unfortunate air disasters this year. I also question why airlines chose to fly through this part of the world. Truly shocking!

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