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Thread: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

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    Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    http://rt.com/news/putin-address-military-russia-125/

    This link is from RT (Russian state partially funded TV)

    So Putin wants to build the biggest war machine in the world and has stated that individual human rights are not democratic.

    Hmm.. sounds like a 21st Century Hitler to me.

    All this seems to have been sparked by the Ukraine (EU vs Russia) protests.

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    OilSheikh
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    Re: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    About time.
    US has been in top spot for far tooo long with air and naval bases in everyone's garden

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    Re: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    Been a while since we had a nice global conflagration. Let's make Red Alert 2 about to happen.

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    Re: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    Quote Originally Posted by OilSheikh View Post
    About time.
    US has been in top spot for far tooo long with air and naval bases in everyone's garden
    No trees were harmed in the creation of this message. However, many electrons were displaced and terribly inconvenienced.

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    Re: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    Quote Originally Posted by AETAaAS View Post
    Been a while since we had a nice global conflagration. Let's make Red Alert 2 about to happen.
    Ah the memories... I can still hear the voices now!

    ja comrade, I'm going
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    A new comrade joins us
    Desolator ready...

    man I loved that game!

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    Re: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    I personally do think that at somepoint in our lifetime, there will be an attempt to attack us on our own soil or USA.

    For some reason, I've always thought the Russians are the crazy ones to attempt it.

    Hopefully not however, don't fancy getting took out by a mobile Tesla Coil/Tank.

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    Re: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    Russians are crazy...the fact they still haven't grasped the basics of human biology but have the means to destroy it.

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    Re: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    Quote Originally Posted by DeludedGuy View Post
    Russians are crazy...the fact they still haven't grasped the basics of human biology but have the means to destroy it.
    huh?
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Re: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    Quote Originally Posted by Macman View Post

    Hopefully not however, don't fancy getting took out by a mobile Tesla Coil/Tank.
    "charrging uuuppp!"

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    Re: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    RT tends to be somewhat full of hyperbole anyway,ie,they can be DM like at times.

    Now,lets take the devil's advocate and look at why Russia is spending money on rebuilding their military.

    Its hypocrisy on our part when the US and European countries spend over $700 billion on defence a year:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...ry_expenditure

    Russian has a population over twice our size and we spend more per capita on defence and we are "tiny" in land area compared to Russia. The Russian military has the largest land area and longest border length in the entire world to defend and have multiple superpowers and military alliances on their doorstep.

    Moreover,Russian military funding collapsed between 1991 until around 10 to 15 years later. Most of the equipment is obsolete and training was non existent.
    The procurement budget was non-existent. Dozens of new Mig29 fighters went from the factory to storage,shipyards building new ships had their power switched off,ships took 12+ years to finish instead of 4 years,etc as there was no money. Loads of the Russian military was cannibalised as parts. The Russian navy literally rusted away. They lost a whole generation of people and expertise due to the economic chaos in the 1990s meaning they can barely build a few dozen aircraft or a few ships a year. The deal for French Mistral class amphibious warfare ships is as much as for getting French expertise to improve their out of date shipyards.

    At the same time,the EU countries and the US have replaced large quantities of their military equipment with new stuff and updated their stuff continuously since 1991. The Russians really have not and look at the Georgian war. They were using Tu22M3 aircraft for reconnaissance FFS! They did not even have proper drones and the army was using standard mobile phones for talking to each other!!

    Another consideration is our own aggressive posture in Russian government terms. NATO was formed to counter Russian military power. Yet this same NATO still exists after the collapse of the USSR and of Russia militarily,22 years later. It has also expanded in size moving eastward towards Russian borders,and has expanded its operations towards North Africa and Afghanistan,ie, beyond its original remit. Now also consider that the US rebuked Russian proposals towards helping with the missile shield,also did not help and those early warning radars will undermine the Russian nuclear deterrant.

    Good way to go. The Russians know their conventional military is weak,especially after the two Chechen wars,and we try and undermine the one ace they have left. Sigh.

    It makes me think how the US would react if they built early warning radars in Cuba?

    So the Russian government probably sees these two actions alone as aggressive actions. Then OFC,the EU is seen as just another part of an EU/US hegemony aggressively encroaching onto their back door,which sadly is the result of our military moves.

    People really,need to get their "sodding Russkies" glasses off for a second and consider how we would feel if the UK had the same thing happening to them?? Or the US?? Saw what happened to Cuba??

    The $700 billion programme is part of one which was announced a few years ago,and it is over 10 to 15 years IIRC. People really need to consider that the money has to also make up for 10 to 15 years of virtually no defence procurement. It not only is about purchasing new military equipment,but also about re-organising the whole military and moving the army towards a professional army,which means massive increases in salaries,etc.

    If anything,people should see where a lot of the money for the Russian navy allotment is being spent on - corvettes and light frigates for coastal and EEZ defence,and towards replacing a minimum number of their old SSBNs and SSN(I think 20 in total).

    However,I expect this all to go over the head of many people.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 13-12-2013 at 05:23 PM. Reason: Typo!!


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    Re: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    and so the race to build an army to fight over the remaining scraps of our planets resources starts.
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    Re: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    I also forgot another aspect of the program - it will help maintain and create many new manufacturing jobs in Russia,during a recession. Hence,there is also a more cunning reason for it too,ie,making sure the current political party in power can get more votes at the next election.


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

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    Re: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    Quote Originally Posted by OilSheikh View Post
    About time.
    US has been in top spot for far tooo long with air and naval bases in everyone's garden
    I would rather the US were running the show than the Russian or Chinese.

    Would you prefer Russian supremacy ?

    Need I remind you they occupied eastern Europe for almost 5 decades. USA don't have the best record, but I it's crystal clean in comparison to the USSR / Russia's record.

    China seem to be siding with Russia, the political situation could turn volatile very quickly. Get ready for Brazil siding with china and Russia, followed by the Argentinians to see and opportunity to invade the Falklands again. EU is fragile and Russia knows this, that's why they are stoking the fire now. All this political posturing is very very calculated. The middle east and north Africa will erupt into full scale civil and religious wars, and the US will be overstretched with possible problems from protecting Israel and the Chinese aggression to Japan on the other side. All this with a pinch of Muslim terrorist attacks on various EU countries, followed by retaliation attacks.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/comme...9BC0C420131213

    Not to mention the Chinese have just landed on the moon.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...-37-years.html

    We are entering a massive period of turmoil in the world. Mark my words. The only good news is that the Germans will be on the same side as us this time.

    Call me paranoid if you like, but this really is a time off massive change.

    Last edited by j1979; 14-12-2013 at 06:42 PM.

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    Re: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    RT tends to be somewhat full of hyperbole anyway,ie,they can be DM like at times.
    Well, yes. RT is Russian state sponsored, just like the good old days of the cold war but this time they broadcast globally. RT's words are Putins words watered down for the world to swallow.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Now,lets take the devil's advocate and look at why Russia is spending money on rebuilding their military.

    Its hypocrisy on our part when the US and European countries spend over $700 billion on defence a year:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...ry_expenditure

    Russian has a population over twice our size and we spend more per capita on defence and we are "tiny" in land area compared to Russia. The Russian military has the largest land area and longest border length in the entire world to defend and have multiple superpowers and military alliances on their doorstep.
    The US took on the roll of the police of the world because no other country could, and lets be honest if there were not there we would either be speaking Russian or German now if they had not.

    The USA does have a huge army to police its borders and interfere in world events that they see as a threat, no matter how small..... this is true, but history also shows Russia only grows a large army when it wants to expand it's boarders.

    Lets look at US vs Russian dissenters.

    Edward Snowden if he returned to the US via his own choice or extradition would more than likely face a trail with possible worse case scenario of life imprisonment.

    Alexander Litvinenko was just killed in the worst possible way with a trail leading back to Moscow.

    To compare US foreign policy with Russian, is crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Moreover,Russian military funding collapsed between 1991 until around 10 to 15 years later. Most of the equipment is obsolete and training was non existent.
    The procurement budget was non-existent. Dozens of new Mig29 fighters went from the factory to storage,shipyards building new ships had their power switched off,ships took 12+ years to finish instead of 4 years,etc as there was no money. Loads of the Russian military was cannibalised as parts. The Russian navy literally rusted away. They lost a whole generation of people and expertise due to the economic chaos in the 1990s meaning they can barely build a few dozen aircraft or a few ships a year. The deal for French Mistral class amphibious warfare ships is as much as for getting French expertise to improve their out of date shipyards.
    Funding collapsed because Ragan's policy to bankrupt the USSR, and win the cold war through advancement and economic power. The Russians learned this lesson and have now built there economy so that this will not happen in the future.

    The "rusting army" has mostly been sold to China and other counties, for scrap, conversion and or partial redeployment.


    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    At the same time,the EU countries and the US have replaced large quantities of their military equipment with new stuff and updated their stuff continuously since 1991. The Russians really have not and look at the Georgian war. They were using Tu22M3 aircraft for reconnaissance FFS! They did not even have proper drones and the army was using standard mobile phones for talking to each other!!
    Europe have updated and upgraded for for a good reason FFS!

    USSR has invaded Poland twice in the last 100 Years! and occupied it for a lot longer. There is a good reason why Sweden have built such a high tech navy.


    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Another consideration is our own aggressive posture in Russian government terms. NATO was formed to counter Russian military power. Yet this same NATO still exists after the collapse of the USSR and of Russia militarily,22 years later. It has also expanded in size moving eastward towards Russian borders,and has expanded its operations towards North Africa and Afghanistan,ie, beyond its original remit. Now also consider that the US rebuked Russian proposals towards helping with the missile shield,also did not help and those early warning radars will undermine the Russian nuclear deterrant.
    This is the point you are missing, Russia & Putin want the USSR back.

    They are funding Yanukovitch's Ukraine, and will hold Ukraine to ransom with Natural gas prices like the last time Ukraine has a pro EU government.

    They have still not withdrawn from Kaliningrad after the second world war!

    They have still not give Vyborg and other Finnish lands back after the second world war!

    Out of the 14 counties they have shared a land border with in the last 100 years they have invaded or occupied 11 of those.


    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Good way to go. The Russians know their conventional military is weak,especially after the two Chechen wars,and we try and undermine the one ace they have left. Sigh.

    It makes me think how the US would react if they built early warning radars in Cuba?

    So the Russian government probably sees these two actions alone as aggressive actions. Then OFC,the EU is seen as just another part of an EU/US hegemony aggressively encroaching onto their back door,which sadly is the result of our military moves.

    People really,need to get their "sodding Russkies" glasses off for a second and consider how we would feel if the UK had the same thing happening to them?? Or the US?? Saw what happened to Cuba??
    I will say it again. Russia has a history of invasions and full efforts at assimilation, It invaded Poland twice in the last 100 years and invaded Ukraine and has exercised genocide in both counties. Do you really think that the people of Ukraine and Poland think of Russian the way you do?

    1 Million people have marched on the Capitol. Ukraine only got independence in 1991 and now, the Russians want it back.



    I was here in June... and trust me the barricades were not there when the people though they will be moving closer to the EU. People are very scarred of Russia. for good reason.



    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    The $700 billion programme is part of one which was announced a few years ago,and it is over 10 to 15 years IIRC. People really need to consider that the money has to also make up for 10 to 15 years of virtually no defence procurement. It not only is about purchasing new military equipment,but also about re-organising the whole military and moving the army towards a professional army,which means massive increases in salaries,etc.

    If anything,people should see where a lot of the money for the Russian navy allotment is being spent on - corvettes and light frigates for coastal and EEZ defence,and towards replacing a minimum number of their old SSBNs and SSN(I think 20 in total).

    However,I expect this all to go over the head of many people.
    Ohh dear.

    As I stated before, these are words from Putin (the un democratically elected ) self proclaimed leader of Russia. RT (Russia Today) Is Russian propaganda, and their words, are to build the worlds best and most advanced war machine, and a state that will make homosexuality illegal. (that's the start)

    If these signals are not ringing alarm bells yet, then give it a few years, when gay people are being locked up or worse, then review your statement.

    We have a comparable situation in Russia as what there was in Germany after the first world war.

    A humiliated country that capitulated and gave up it's aggression, followed by period of economic decline, followed by recovery, booming economy, then a slow erosion of democracy, and the encroachment on human rights.

    Russia is a wolf, waiting with it's old allies, ready to pounce when it sees fit, a weak EU and US.

    some people will see Russia's right to flex it's muscles, after all who can stop her? In a few years, when China and Russia shake hands again, we will again adopt a policy of appeasement rather than aggression, followed by Russia invading again. Not to mention they are hosting the Olympics sound familiar?

    UKRAINE matters, and what is happening now, is the prelude to a global war.

    We are only 40 odd years away from the planned Invasion of Manchester
    http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibti...3/maidan-3.jpg
    Last edited by j1979; 14-12-2013 at 08:13 PM.

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    Re: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    Quote Originally Posted by j1979 View Post
    Well, yes. RT is Russian state sponsored, just like the good old days of the cold war but this time they broadcast globally. RT's words are Putins words watered down for the world to swallow.



    The US took on the roll of the police of the world because no other country could, and lets be honest if there were not there we would either be speaking Russian or German now if they had not.

    The USA does have a huge army to police its borders and interfere in world events that they see as a threat, no matter how small..... this is true, but history also shows Russia only grows a large army when it wants to expand it's boarders.



    Funding collapsed because Ragan's policy to bankrupt the USSR, and win the cold war through advancement and economic power. The Russians learned this lesson and have now built there economy so that this will not happen in the future.

    The "rusting army" has mostly been sold to China and other counties, for scrap, conversion and or partial redeployment.




    Europe have updated and upgraded for FOR GOOD REASON FFS!

    USSR has invaded Poland twice in the last 100 Years! and occupied it for a lot longer. There is a good reason why Sweden have built such a high tech navy.




    This is the point you are missing, Russia & Putin want the USSR back.

    They are funding Yanukovitch's Ukraine, and will hold Ukraine to ransom with Natural gas prices like the last time Ukraine has a pro EU government.

    They have still not withdrawn from Kaliningrad after the second world war!

    They have still not give Vyborg and other Finnish lands back after the second world war!

    Out of the 14 counties they have shared a land border with in the last 100 years they have invaded or occupied 11 of those.




    I will say it again. Russia has a history of invasions and full efforts at assimilation, It invaded Poland twice in the last 100 years and invaded Ukraine and has exercised genocide in both counties. Do you really think that the people of Ukraine and Poland think of Russian the way you do?

    1 Million people have marched on the Capitol. Ukraine only got independence in 1991 and now, the Russians want it back.



    I was here in June... and trust me the barricades were not there when the people though they will be moving closer to the EU. People are very scarred of Russia. for good reason.





    Ohh dear.

    As I stated before, these are words from Putin (the un democratically elected ) self proclaimed leader of Russia. RT (Russia Today) Is Russian propaganda, and their words, are to build the worlds best and most advanced war machine, and a state that will make homosexuality illegal. (that's the start)

    If these signals are not ringing alarm bells yet, then give it a few years, when gay people are being locked up or worse, then review your statement.

    We have a comparable situation in Russia as what there was in Germany after the first world war.

    A humiliated country that capitulated and gave up it's aggression, followed by period of economic decline, followed by recovery, booming economy, then a slow erosion of democracy, and the encroachment on human rights.

    Russia is a wolf, waiting with it's old allies, ready to pounce when it sees fit, a weak EU and US.

    some people will see Russia's right to flex it's muscles, after all who can stop her? In a few years, when China and Russia shake hands again, we will again adopt a policy of appmeasement rather than aggression, followed by Russia invading again.

    UKRAINE matters, and what is happening now, is the prelude to a global war.

    We are only 40 odd years away from the planned Invasion of Manchester
    http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibti...3/maidan-3.jpg
    Oh dear,you must have not taken some meds. You seem paranoid and angry. Instead of complaining on a forum in the UK go and fight the good fight against the new Satan instead of sitting like a good old daily mail/telegraph reader on your arse like an armchair general. No, you would rather send someone else to make the sacrifice.Yawn.

    Russia has it own set of problems like most of the world no doubt, however the typical politics of fear are good at deflecting from internal issues which are more important.One of those is our massive economic mismanagement and fraud.
    Can't trust those russkies can we? More crap hypocracy from us when we have effed around the world ourselves for the last 200 years to help ourselves. Its people like you who are the problem because u think western Europe and the us have some god given right to do anything they want and have a free pass on all the suffering they have caused. But when it is not us we judge them to a different level and preach, thinking we are the master race and should be taught civilization.The rest of the world are subservient only to what we think is the correct way.Compartmentalise and deflect more. Perhaps you should be worrying more about our legacy more,but it is always easier to not look in your own back garden.

    Go back to reading the daily mail. I spent enough time in this thread. Have fun arguing with someone else.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 14-12-2013 at 07:38 PM.


    Those despicable Elk,stealing the pond weed!

  18. #16
    Senior Member j1979's Avatar
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    Re: Russia to build new super army! Ukraine, Human Rights and WW3

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Oh dear,you must have not taken some meds. You seem paranoid and angry.

    Can't trust those russkies can we? More crap hypocracy from us when we have effed around the world ourselves for the last 200 years to help ourselves. Its people like you who are the problem because u think western Europe and the us have some god given right to do anything they want and have a free pass on all the suffering they have caused. But when it is not us we judge them to a different level and preach, thinking we are the master race and should be taught civilization.Compartmentalise and deflect more. Perhaps you should be worrying more about our legacy more,but it is always easier to not look in your own back garden.

    Go back to reading the daily mail.

    Sorry but you are mislead and mistaken on a great number of points.

    I gave you very strong examples, of what is happening with the current situation and recent history of Russia. You came back with nothing constructive.

    I am married to a Russian Ukrainian, and have very strong ties in that country, I know a number of Ukrainians and Russians.

    You like to watch the programs on TV that criticises our own foreign policy quite often no doubt, which is fair enough and laudable.

    But please bear in mind that you can't openly criticise the Russian government or state, on TV or in public since the KGB man Putin took charge. The same is true in Ukraine.

    My brother-in-law's job a few years ago was to pay people in Ukraine to stand with signs & banners and vote for Yanukovych in the last election. He paid people 100 UAH each to vote for Yanukovych and 50 UAH to stand around chanting. This was all funded across Ukraine by an unknown entity. He didn't care as he was getting paid for it.

    The Russian Eurasia Party frequently terrorizes political opposition to Putins rule. They have carried out acts of vandalism and intimation across Russia, Belaus and Ukraine.

    The rainbow flag is now illegal in Russia.

    Putin was in the KGB and has systematically arrested or worse to any strong political opponents or people with the power and money to fund opposition.
    Boris Abramovich Berezovsky
    Vladimir Gusinsky
    Mikhail Khodorkovsky

    dissenters of Putins rule go missing or are killed cold war style.

    Political opposition is crushed.
    http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2013/05/elena/

    They sensor the internet
    http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2...et-censorship/

    The last 2 pro Europe leaders of Ukraine?

    One in prison http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulia_Tymoshenko
    One poisoned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko


    Perhaps you should open your eyes and look outwards. And stop having your own inner Pussy Riot!

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