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Thread: Burglars

  1. #113
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Well......no basically, since ignorance of the law is no excuse. The law says that you are allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself, so if a burglar doesn't know that and comes in expecting the law to protect them from harm, that's their lookout.

    Incidentally, I have heard that one of the most effective ways to deter burglars from breaking into your house (apart from owning a dog) is to hang some crossbows on your wall where they're clearly visible to would-be intruders. Frightens the life out of them, apparently.

    Rich :¬)

    Edit: re: your edit. I shall refer to them as Katanas from now on then.

  2. #114
    Senior Member RVF500's Avatar
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    So I don't need to bury the miscreant in the common land behind my house and pretend nothing happened then? Nor do I need to act on the information found on the deceased burglars driving license to locate and eradicate his exended family in case he told one of them whose house he was gonna rob when he vanished?

    You guys take all the fun out of it.
    "You want loyalty? ......get a dog!"

  3. #115
    Will work for beer... nichomach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RVF500
    So I don't need to...
    Well, you don't NEED to as such, but I'd hate to stop you having your fun; surely a better approach would be to have the extended family dig their own graves, whilst adopting a more supervisory role, though?

  4. #116
    Senior Member RVF500's Avatar
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    I knew there was something deeply disturbing about you nicho, but yuo do have a valid point. After all, the parents have committed the crime of polluting the gene pool with their offspring for starters.
    "You want loyalty? ......get a dog!"

  5. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rave
    Find exactly where in this thread I said that you shouldn't hurt burglars because it's not their fault?

    kthxbye.

    Rich :!¬)
    Well the impression Im getting is that your saying 75% of burglarys are commited on drug related grounds. You also say that this is not burgalars(drug addicts) fault, but the governments. Or at least, you seem to think that the reason burglarys are commited lies within the government.

    Yes, it is the governments fault that people take drugs.
    Yes, it is the governments fault that people steal from homes.
    Hell why dont we blame the government for everything like the state of my local park(NOT the kids who vandalise it) etc...

    So, I dont understand exactly where u stand...are you saying we are allowed to use reasonable force on those burglars who DO NOT take drugs(So we'd have to ask them) bcos it would be unfair to attack a drug offending burglar, bcos its not their fault - its the goverments...or are we allowed to use reasonable force on anyone?

    The reason drugs are banned in this country is because they cause HUGE problems. The goverment do try to prevent them pouring into this country. I personally think they could do more but but dont give me that "Oh they cause problems bcos they are illegal" crap. We both know its B*llocks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rave
    Instead of getting angry with burglars though, why not point the finger where the blame for all drug related burglary really lies- with the government. Since IIRC 75% of burglaries are drug related (I.E. they are carried out by drug users with habits to pay for), pretty much 75% of them could be prevented if you simply legalised all drugs. When was the last time you heard of someone burgling a house to pay for alcohol? I don't believe I've ever heard of that; with White Lightning at £2 a bottle, pretty much any alky can pay for their fix from their dole money or from a little light begging.
    I think your ideas on how we treat intruders are great. Especially for a sci-fi movie. You seem to think the government can solve everything, but they can't and that they secretly want drug addicts to steal from homes in orderto make the goverment look bad....yea thats about right.

    My house has never been burgled. I want a medal. I realised the only, most effective way to prevent ur home from being burgled, is to make it like a fort. Use common sense. my next door neighbour was burgled only last year, why? She left her window open.

    Ahwell.

    Nothing personal Rave, but I really disagree with you. If you dont like our government, leave the country and go visit Saudi Arabia and see how they deal with theives there. Oh boy you'd have a field day trip!
    Signatures are stupid

  6. #118
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paradidle
    Well the impression Im getting is that your saying 75% of burglarys are commited on drug related grounds.
    This, as far as I'm aware, is true.

    You also say that this is not burgalars(drug addicts) fault,
    Actually I didn't say that at all, but never mind....

    but the governments. Or at least, you seem to think that the reason burglarys are commited lies within the government.
    Yes- or a good proportion of burglaries anyway. Drug addicts burgle houses because they need money to buy drugs, which are expensive. Why are drugs expensive? Because they're illegal. Why are they illegal? Because the government has passed laws banning them. Hence, the blame for a lot of burglary lies squarely with the government.

    So, I dont understand exactly where u stand...are you saying we are allowed to use reasonable force on those burglars who DO NOT take drugs(So we'd have to ask them) bcos it would be unfair to attack a drug offending burglar, bcos its not their fault - its the goverments...or are we allowed to use reasonable force on anyone?
    You're allowed to use reasonable force on anyone, and that's what I've stated all along. I don't understand how you've managed to miss the point so completely.

    The reason drugs are banned in this country is because they cause HUGE problems.
    Oh yeah, like what?

    The goverment do try to prevent them pouring into this country.
    ....and largely fail.

    I personally think they could do more but but dont give me that "Oh they cause problems bcos they are illegal" crap. We both know its B*llocks.
    I don't think it's b*llocks. Please explain why it is?

    I think your ideas on how we treat intruders are great. Especially for a sci-fi movie.
    What ideas are those then?

    You seem to think the government can solve everything,
    Blatantly putting words into my mouth isn't going to win you the argument, I'm afraid. Stick to arguing with what I've said, rather than what you want me to have said, please.

    Nothing personal Rave, but I really disagree with you. If you dont like our government, leave the country and go visit Saudi Arabia and see how they deal with theives there. Oh boy you'd have a field day trip!
    I have no interest in Going to Saudi Arabia thanks, I'm British and I want my government to do a proper job running the country I was born in. You can try and paint me as some sort of soft-on-crime, bleeding-heart liberal all you like, but it won't wash. I dislike criminals as much as anyone, but I'm actually interested in working to treat the causes rather than resorting to knee-jerk tabloid rubbish arguments.

    Rich :¬)

  7. #119
    Registered+ Zathras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paradidle
    If you dont like our government, leave the country and go visit Saudi Arabia and see how they deal with theives there. Oh boy you'd have a field day trip!
    Oh please, it's you who's complaining about the laws being too lapse and how we should be able to beat burglars up. Surely how Saudi Arabia operates fits your ideal far more closely than it fits Raves?

  8. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rave

    Yes- or a good proportion of burglaries anyway. Drug addicts burgle houses because they need money to buy drugs, which are expensive. Why are drugs expensive? Because they're illegal. Why are they illegal? Because the government has passed laws banning them. Hence, the blame for a lot of burglary lies squarely with the government.

    Rich :¬)

    So you are gonna blame the government for wanting to protect people against harmful substances that not only affect themesleves but the people around them?

    There is no excuse for drug taking. Simply dont do it. Drugs are illegal for a reason. It seems you cant understand words, so I will show you a picture or two:

    Before:



    After:



    This is a letter that Penny Wood (The girl pictured above) wrote to those campaigning against cocaine:

    "Hello. I wanted to thank you for asking permission to use my photo as so many don't.
    This drug is evil. There is no other way to describe it.
    Not only the outer disfiguration is extreme, the effects it has on your insides are worse.
    Young (old) people need to know that maybe for a minute you'll be skinny and full of energy, but the long term effects are____________. I have no word to describe, but here is my story for young people to consider....It takes everything I have to walk a flight of stairs. My lungs are destroyed...

    I have no control over my bladder - I pee my pants all the time.
    I can't take a bowel movement without a laxative.
    My long term is short term memories are near to none.
    And all this is just the beginning - I've only been clean 1 year and ½; so my body and brain are still not complete.
    Studies show that meth may cause cancer also.
    I want no pity, I just want these young people & old to know what this stuff does to your insides as well as the outward appearance.
    You can use my name & what I've written - People need to know and if you want or need anything else from me - please don't hesitate.
    Sincerely,
    Penny S Wood"

    You just sound like you are trying to sound intelligent by posting statistics that are irrelevant to what you are talking about. The next a burglar jumps through my window, i will not get angry with them, bcos its not their fault. i will ring up Tony Blair and ask him to get the burgalr out of my house! Thats what it sounds like your saying, bcos you actually did write it!

    If you are going to give a point make it clear what you are talking about. And when you reply to something I have posted, read what Ive said first.

    Just give me half an hour, Im gonna go walk thru Moss side to ask some drug addicts to find out how many of them are burglars. Ho Ho Ho!

    The government DO try to prevent drugs pouring into our Country but like I WROTE IN MY POST... I said they should do better.


    The bit about Saudi Arabia was supposed to be a joke. But I dont think anyone got it. Nevermind.

    Bottom line, everyone knows right from wrong unless they are mentally insane. Dont take drugs bcos drugs are bad. Why? Bcos Mr Mackey says so!

    Signatures are stupid

  9. #121
    i am jack idimmu's Avatar
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    the burgular has made a conscience decision to enter your house and take your possessions. to me that is their fault. what ever they want it for is not my concern. i dont think its the governments fault at all.

    i do think that if someone has entered ym house with intent to steal my stuff, i should be able to clobber them with anything i can find. if he/she then becomes a threat to my life, i would not hessitate in defending myself with any means available.

  10. #122
    Will work for beer... nichomach's Avatar
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    Paradidle, Rave's NEVER said that if anyone burgles you it's not their fault, and he's never argued that you shouldn't be allowed to use force to defend yourself. When it comes to advising people to read the posts that they're replying to, you're on rather a sticky wicket.

    No-one's said that someone's decision to take drugs isn't their fault; the most that Rave has suggested is that since it is their illegality which causes drugs to be so expensive, and since decriminalisation would massively reduce this cost, decriminalisation would also lessen the imperative for drug users to finance their habit through theft.

    The argument that you have just proposed is that the decriminalisation of drugs would have other harmful effects upon society. Frankly, we've dealt with the "crime motivated by need to feed habit" aspect satisfactorily anyway, and in fact that aspect of any harm to society from drug use would be drastically reduced. Let's take the example of the woman above; you'll note that her addiction is to crystal meth, a thoroughly nasty bathtub amphetamine derivative; one that is used because it's cheaper than, say, cocaine based stimulants. That pricing differential is occasioned by the difficulty of obtaining coke caused by its illegality. Most of the health problems experienced by addicts are as a consequence of adulterated or contaminated drugs; decriminalisation would enable them to obtain unadulterated forms, and things like clean needles. You'd cut down on ulcerating sores and Hep and HIV transmission. Not a bad thing, surely? Note, I don't in any way advocate the use of drugs like coke or heroin, I'm merely pointing out that decriminalisation might have some beneficial effects.

  11. #123
    Will work for beer... nichomach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idimmu
    the burgular has made a conscience decision to enter your house and take your possessions. to me that is their fault. what ever they want it for is not my concern. i dont think its the governments fault at all.
    No-one's arguing that it should be your concern if you find someone in your home.

    Quote Originally Posted by idimmu
    i do think that if someone has entered ym house with intent to steal my stuff, i should be able to clobber them with anything i can find. if he/she then becomes a threat to my life, i would not hessitate in defending myself with any means available.
    And that would be ENTIRELY legal.

  12. #124
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    I read something in the mirror earlier that really wound me up, was talking about burglars rights, and how some MP was wrong to say "burglars have rights too", went on to bitch about did the right of a pensioner who was beaten up in his own home for money or a woman that was raped in front of her children have rights.

    I thought hold the f***ing phone since when has abh and rape been burgalry?

  13. #125
    Will work for beer... nichomach's Avatar
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    Well, they're not, although unlawfully entering those people's homes with the intent to do them is. Burglary is unlawfully entering someone's property with the intent to commit one of a range of offences; theft is one, but assault and rape are others. That said, the reason that poor old chap was beaten up wasn't because he was frightened to defend himself because he might be sued, but because he was old and thus couldn't defend himself physically whatever the law said. I would wager that the woman was also overpowered by a stronger assailant. They're nasty cases but I think you're on the right track when you question their relevance; the governing factor wasn't what the law said but the physical capabilities of attacker and victim.

  14. #126
    HEXUS webmaster Steve's Avatar
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    Well this thread is just brimming with festive cheer.

    We all OK? Things not getting out of hand in here?
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    Why no, officer.
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  16. #128
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paradidle
    So you are gonna blame the government for wanting to protect people against harmful substances that not only affect themesleves but the people around them?
    Yes. People always want to get high, or take mood altering substances; it's a fact of life. It's obvious to anyone who's studied the effects of various drugs that alcohol is amongst the most harmful drugs out there, and yet it's entirely legal for anyone aged 18 or over to take as much as they like. In fact alcohol profoundly affects my life- I can't remember the last day that I didn't drink enough to have an effect on my overall demeanour. I'm not exactly worried, since it hasn't yet caused me to endanger my job or my marriage, but I'm just as much of a drug user as many people who use marijuana or even heroin on a regular basis.

    There is no excuse for drug taking. Simply dont do it. Drugs are illegal for a reason.
    Yes- the reason being that successive governments have been arrogant enough to think that their directives can overcome basic human nature. If people want to take drugs they will; if they don't then they won't. It's not entirely beyond the bounds of possibility that cannabis will be legalised in my lifetime. If it is, I still won't take it, because I've discovered that for me, the downsides outweigh the benefits.

    If Heroin was legalised tomorrow, I'd be in no hurry to go out and try it.

    It seems you cant understand words, so I will show you a picture or two:
    No, I can understand words fine. It seems in fact that you can't use them effectively so you're reduced to parroting a government campaign. As nichomach has already said, the woman in the picture was a user of crystal meth, a form of nastily refined amphetamine (just as crack is a refined form of cocaine). Amphetamines in and of themselves are not in any way harmful if used correctly, in fact amphetamine derivatives are prescribed to controll Attention Defecit and Hyperactivity Disorder.

    You just sound like you are trying to sound intelligent by posting statistics that are irrelevant to what you are talking about.
    Right, so the cause of 75% of burglaries is irrelevant to a discussion of burglary. Sorry, yeah, I guess I'm not as clever as I thought I was.

    The next a burglar jumps through my window, i will not get angry with them, bcos its not their fault. i will ring up Tony Blair and ask him to get the burgalr out of my house! Thats what it sounds like your saying, bcos you actually did write it!
    Where?

    If you are going to give a point make it clear what you are talking about.
    No, if you are going to reply to something I have said, make sure you have the intelligence to understand it first

    Just give me half an hour, Im gonna go walk thru Moss side to ask some drug addicts to find out how many of them are burglars. Ho Ho Ho!
    And that will prove what exactly?

    The government DO try to prevent drugs pouring into our Country but like I WROTE IN MY POST... I said they should do better.
    I know you WROTE THAT IN YOUR POST, I'm saying that they should just give up. The government has failed to control drug smuggling for 30 years. Obviously it's because they just haven't been trying hard enough isn't it?

    The bit about Saudi Arabia was supposed to be a joke. But I dont think anyone got it. Nevermind.
    I got it, and realised that it was unfunny and irrelevant.

    Bottom line, everyone knows right from wrong unless they are mentally insane. Dont take drugs bcos drugs are bad. Why? Bcos Mr Mackey says so:
    Yeah, that image was created to convey a serious anti-drugs message

    Rich :¬)
    Last edited by Rave; 18-12-2004 at 02:17 AM.

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