Lib Dems seize Brent East victory

[DaBeeeenster]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3121336.stm

What are people's thoughts on this? Labour have lost that seat in a huge (29%) swing - the largest in almost a decade.

Is this the moment that people will look back on as the beginning of the LibDems moving to the become the second political party in the UK?

[Big RICHARD]

This is the moment that sees the beginning of a Lib Dem government. The 1st political party in the UK.

BTW, second to who?

[kaillum]

i think its a realisation of an increased awareness of the Lib Dem's, I think people are starting to see them as an (for want of a better word) alternative to the usual Labour and Tories Government... but as the article stated, with a turnout of 36.4% its a little to small a cross section to actually draw any major conclusions...

on the whole I just think it was a bit of a wake up call for ol' Tony to get his a$$ into gear and start worrying about the things that directly affect people in this country and not looking across the waters for other problems to solve..

[nichomach]

I have to admit that I was very surprised by the result; I grew up in Brent East (used to live on Kilburn Square), and it was always very solidly Labour - MP used to be Reg Freeson, then became Ken Livingstone's seat (coincidentally, my first ever vote was cast in the election that returned him to Parliament for the first time). That said, I was back there recently and there's been a heck of a lot of gentrification of the area, and I'd guess that the population demographics have shifted accordingly. The low turnout will have had a lot to do with it as Kaillum points out - traditionally, low turnouts hit Labour. With any luck, it will focus our Tone's attention a little, which has to be a good thing.

[TeePee]

Gotta feel sorry for 'Rainbow George Weiss' who, with 11 votes, obviously doesn't have that many friends... Mind you, given his party website at www.xat.org it's not hard to see why.

[nichomach]

See what you mean...LOONY ALERT! LOONY ALERT!

[TeePee]

Actually the loony, Alan Howling Lord Hope, managed 59 votes.

[BoB_DoG]

I think that the Lib dems have been doing very well for themselves. Concentrating on local elections above national elections for the last decade has certainly paid off. My opinion of them, is that back in the 90's they knew that they had no chance to govern britain, so they played the long term, staying out of scandals, and producing manifestos that could work, but were a bit overambitious.

More recently they have been gaining popularity, and are increasingly looking like they could take the very weakened Conservatives place as the second party.

However, I think the next national elections are going to be a bit of a mess, with labour losing a lot of power, and a three way struggle going on.

I think this will continue till the conservatives and labour regain some political identity, rather than being two parties that are pretty much Centre on the political scale

[spikegifted]

I'm disappointed by the by-election... Not that I've an opinion about who I'd like to win, but by the low turn out - 36% Nobody in their right mind can honestly say an election victory with only 36% turn out is a victory of any sort. In fact, aside from the Lib Dem who managed to wrestle the seat from Labour, everyone lost.

We live in a parliamentary democracy. It is our right to exercise our (political) judgement on the people who represent our constituent, but it is also our obligation to make our voices heard. This current sad state of affairs is due to the detachment of political life from everyday life: Do the politicians really do their jobs because they care? Or do they want to be politicians just because they want to be politicians - in a position of power, of sort?

One day, I hope, there will be a box available on the voting slip that says: "None of the above". If enough people check that box: fresh election will be held. Politicians will then be forced to really listen to what the people have to say to gain their vote. Let's see what kind of a government would we have then.

[Anders]

You know, the "none of the above" vote idea sounds like a good one in principal.

Don’t the Torries have around 150-160 seats; where as the Lib Dems have about 50-60? Not quite the “effective opposition” yet, but I suppose they are moving in the right direction. Also it worth bearing in mind the current government of the day often tends to lose local elections.

It is worrying that we have such low turnouts. In trial areas the use of technology such as text message and Internet voting has been shown to increase turnout, so I hope they roll it out everywhere. Having said it’s worrying, when I was at University I didn’t vote because the polling station was really far away and the election fell on a double coursework deadline day. I don’t understand why, when there is something like 30,000 (?) students at Leeds University it doesn’t get its own polling station?

[spikegifted]

Originally posted by Anders
I don’t understand why, when there is something like 30,000 (?) students at Leeds University it doesn’t get its own polling station?

That's a very good question you can ask your visiting local politician... What 'visiting local politician'??

[DaBeeeenster]

Originally posted by Anders
You know, the "none of the above" vote idea sounds like a good one in principal.

Don’t the Torries have around 150-160 seats; where as the Lib Dems have about 50-60? Not quite the “effective opposition” yet, but I suppose they are moving in the right direction. Also it worth bearing in mind the current government of the day often tends to lose local elections.

You can spoil your ballot if you wish. Just tick every box (and then optionally scrawl "Tony Blair is a ******* ****" - you can choose your own expletives ). That WILL be registered as a spoiled vote, as opposed to no vote at all.

Regarding the LibDems as being the "second party". The thing is, due to the first past the post system, I think I am correct in saying that the LibDems have more votes that dont count in a general election than any other party. Not sure if that's true, but the point is there. There comes a tipping point as a party is gaining momentum in the UK that it will suddenly gain a lot of extra seats without a large increase in swing towards that party - it's just how the FPTP system works here.

That's the reason that the current party in power has no interest in Proportional Representation electoral reform; it is political suicide for whoever is in power.
If (when, being hopeful ) the LibDems get into power, it will be a real test of character as to whether they make good on their promise to reform the electoral process to one of PR. We shall see...

[DaBeeeenster]

Originally posted by Anders
Having said it’s worrying, when I was at University I didn’t vote because the polling station was really far away and the election fell on a double coursework deadline day. I don’t understand why, when there is something like 30,000 (?) students at Leeds University it doesn’t get its own polling station?

Why not just vote by post? Or have someone vote by proxy for you?

I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for voting. You cant moan that turnouts are low and then come up with an excuse for not voting! There is no excuse!

[directhex]

Originally posted by spikegifted
One day, I hope, there will be a box available on the voting slip that says: "None of the above". If enough people check that box: fresh election will be held. Politicians will then be forced to really listen to what the people have to say to gain their vote. Let's see what kind of a government would we have then.

ever hear about the Ficus 2000 campaign? google for it...

--jo

[DaBeeeenster]

Originally posted by spikegifted
One day, I hope, there will be a box available on the voting slip that says: "None of the above". If enough people check that box: fresh election will be held. Politicians will then be forced to really listen to what the people have to say to gain their vote. Let's see what kind of a government would we have then.

TBH, I think you have it wrong. Politicians DO listen to what people say, and they do attempt to formulate policy in order to attract as large an electorate as possible; this is the the reason for them existing, at the end of the day.

If you want to know why voter turnout is so terribly low in the UK at the moment, read "Captive State" by George Monbiot and "The Silent Takeover" by Noreena Hertz (Who, btw, is a fox ).

It's not that politicians are not saying what people want to hear, it is that they are not the people in power in Great Britain. Look at the companies in the FTSE100 and the NYSE. They are the ones in charge; government marches to the tune of the corporation.

[Anders]

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
Why not just vote by post? Or have someone vote by proxy for you?

I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for voting. You cant moan that turnouts are low and then come up with an excuse for not voting! There is no excuse!

Yes I was well aware of my hypocrisy, which was why I owned up to not voting. I wasn’t moaning, just said that it is worrying. Still my point was that making it easier to vote should increase voter turnout (but it doesn’t take a genius to figure that out ). If I could have voted by the Internet/text message I would have. It was more the fact that my nasty department put two massive coursework deadlines on the same day, coupled with the fact that I have poor time management and leave everything to the last minute.

Spoiling your vote is not quite the same as actually ticking a box to say “none of the above”, because some spoilt ballots are accidents. Also, if there were more spoilt votes than any other, this wouldn’t trigger anything would it, e.g. a re-election?

Yes, I believe the Lib Dems do have their votes spread more widely, which doesn’t suit our first past the post system. A problem with proportional representation is that it often results in weak governments, which can force moderate parties to form governments with extreme parties. To be honest, I’m not actually sure which system is the fairest or which system I prefer.