It should not be the role of the state to tell children what to believe and what not to believe. It should be the responsibilty of the parents. Much of this countries problems come from people expecting the state to provide, while not expecting that they need to have a role in this as well.
I'm wary of the state doing anything other than giving children the facts, so that they may make the OWN minds up over what is good and what is bad.
Michael Howard is peeing in the wind. Its a pity, because it just shows that we have no effective competition for Labour.
So I would say that, while I dont see his statements as very effective, cos they're not, I also don't agree with anyone who says "what do kids do when you tell them to do something" because I am prepared to risk my neck and hazard a very dangerous guess that what Dabeenster means is they go and do the opposite.
/hides
/waits
/peeks out....
right...well having said that I don't agree. If you think thats how it works with kids, you've got to tell them to go and TAKE DRUGS, GET DRUNK and GET PEOPLE PREGNANT ASAP
Which clearly you can't.
I think Michael Howard is running out of stuff, and he wasn't armed to the teeth in the first place. He's a bit of a dodderer and he sees something that winds him up and he simply goes on telly/radio and tries to use it as electioneering material.
Pitifull.
Which leaves us with Labour a bit/lot longer. Which I'm not all in favour of BECAUSE there is no competitionstrong enough to keep them on their toes
If British Politics was a Market Place, Labour would be Microsoft and a Monopoloies Commission would have to look into it being unfairly dominant in the market place.
Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
So you're saying my folks were bad parents?
Not sure Nick, as I don't know them and I don't know you, and I don't know to what exactly you are refering.
More details please...
what he means is his parents drummed but he ignored
Its not always your parents fault.... if you are weak minded you give into peer pressure.
regarding freedom of speech, I personally think that what the papers put in their paper should be news worthy... but then who decides whats news worthy.
Well, I'd say its not as simple as that then, no. If you are determined to be a rebel, then your paretns can drum like Ringo and it wont have any affect. I suppose you have to be willing to listen at least a little bit, and then good parental drumming can be the extra kick up the arse you need to get the message across.
Sorry if I offended you Nick, it wasn't my intention.
Vaul matey, no, you haven't offended me... not in the slightest, bud.
I was making the point that it isn't always down to what your parents drum into you. There is a certain amount of self-choice in these things. Yes, there's a general rebelliousness, all teenagers know everything they need to know and they also think they're going to live forever... so enjoy doing dodgy stuff today and the hell with tomorrow... But unfortunately, once you reach tomorrow, you're addicted, such as I am to nicotine... even though the damn stuff is killing me slowly...
And Kumagoro, I don't think its fair to say it's about being weak minded either. Or that having an addiction is a sign of weakness in any person. An addiction is an addiction, its a chemical thing that can be broken with will power and help, but how the addiction got started? That's got nothing to do with being weak-minded.
I started smoking all on my tod, I'd not even SEEN any of my friends smoke. I did it becuase I wanted to see what all the fuss was about... then I carried on because I thought it made me cool... so a certain lack of self-esteem might come into it, but not weak mindedness, no.
And now for m ha'porth on free speech. The trouble with papers are that free speech is just that. As long as you can prove what you print is either factually correct OR opinion, then you can put whatever you like in print anywhere and not have to answer to anyone for it.
Newspapers are a commercial set-up though, so they try damn hard to reflect the views of their readership so they KEEP their readership... Imagine if the Daily Mail stopped spouting anti-Blair, anti-Labour copy all the time, their already falling circulation would drop even more. There are very few publications that don't have some kind of political leaning... the previously mentioned Private Eye is one. But then, PE is dedicated to being anti-establishment... if it changed tack it'd have bugger all to fill it's pages and we'd stop buying it as it no longer had any value.
The same goes for for the dailies. The key thing is that the reader has to be able to make up their own mind about what they read and how they interpret it. Personally, I have fairly strong views on all politicians, and I've yet to see any that will prove the exception to my standard views on what an out of touch, corrupt, double dealing, self-ingratiating, snide, ludricrous, out-dated and downright dangerous bunch of bafoons the lot of them are.
Show me a politcian who hasn't got at least some sort of shady or dodgy deal in his past, or whose main interest is getting himself on the Parliamentary gravy train and I'll eat my own bum.
Even Kinnock, that bastion of left wing politics has gone over to the money grabbing side... Over in the European Parliament, he recently voted to help keep the findings of an enquiry into corruption secret... that's open and transparent government for you. (And if you're interested, the woman who blew the whistle on the whole expenses scam might still face going to jail for bringing illegal activities in the EP to light, as she broke an NDA to blow the whistle...)
Oh yes, make no mistake, MPs look after no-one except themselves.... (or any members of their family they can 'employ' as workers... or their friends who can take big percentages for brokering property deals... or the members of someone elses family who they happen to be screwing who can have their train vouchers...)
Christ, I'm starting to sound like Rave..
Parenting is a minefield. I've just gone through a rather trying time with my teenage daughter over a potential boyfriend. I say potential because we actually ended up doing something I never wanted to do. Stopped her seeing someone. Though he has now shown his true colours and my daughter can see we were right this time. It's a minefield because it's so often a judgement call and you aren't always going to be right. My daughter rebelled because my wife put her foot hard down. I took a slightly more conciliatory approach and managed to get her to look at the situation from another angle. As vaul said, it's not just what you say, it's how you say it.
The antics of the Docherty's of this world will always be seen by the rebellious few as cool. Bucking the system, being outlandish. Most taking such a view will only see the gloss (what there is of it) and never bother to scratch below the surface to see the reality. A messed up guy who has messed up others lives and who is likely to end up in jail with serious health problems. All self inflicted.
As for free speech. Well the press seem happy to say what they want under that guise. Castigate and denigrate any one else for having an opinion that doesn't reflect theirs. Freedom of speech to labour is saying whatever they want you to hear, shredding their own information and then publishing anything that may be remotely damaging the the opposition. I see Alistair Campbell is back running the country again. Racist propoganda used by labour has been withdrawn. 'Oops chaps, sorry about that, but all you Muslims I hope you realise that the leader of the oppositionis a Jew so you won't want to vote for him'. And they are the first to play the racist card.
"You want loyalty? ......get a dog!"
I was specifically talking about people who start smoking to get in the cool gang or give
into peer pressure. Its not like you are addicted then is it.
No, absolutely right, but that's not being weak minded, that's perhaps being weak willed, or lacking a sense of self-belief...
But every persons case, though broadly similar, will different. I started smoking specifically because I was told not to, so I wanted to see why... then I found out I was cool with certain people becuase I did it... so that encouraged me to keep on doing it.
Yes, you could argue that I was weak in thinking it was great to be cool... but then, if you're honest, wouldn't you have done the same if you were in that position? The guy who pulls a 360 backflip on his moped isnt going to stop it becuase of the risk of a busted neck, it makes him cool so he'll keep on doing it until people get bored or he kills himself....
And that's the way it works sometimes.
Ok.......actually had a discussion with my little brother last night about this. Hes 9 and they'd been drumming the old anti smoking campaign into him at school all day, he came home to find me on the back yard have a fag and started telling me about all the bad stuff they did and what they'd told him at school but then went on to say "it can't be that bad because you do it".
See both Vaul and Swafe had it drilled into them and weren't all too curious to find out about it. Now that worked because kids (for the most part) respect their parents way more than their teachers. Teachers get NO and I do mean NO respect from kids once they get into double figures age wise. So whatever they say holds very little water with kids and kids are gonna go against them as really even if they do what retaliation do teachers have these days?
The government is giving teachers a terrible policy to follow for drugs, alchohol and cigs the "Its bad so don't do it" does not work, you need to explain the good AND bad points of something and let kids weigh it up in their mind. They need to see both sides of the coin so they don't go out and try it to find out what the good sides are Like Nick did.
Personally I enjoy smoking and thats what I told my brother, I enjoy it and you might make a few new friends and it costs alot, after a few questions he'd decided he wasn't gonna smoke when he was older.
Of course the definition of weak minded isnt clearly defined.
I never felt the need to smoke but at dinner time when the kids go out to smoke
and do buckets and the like I was with them and they were always trying to get
me to smoke or get stoned. The more they told me to do it the more i wouldnt
I dont mean that everyone who does is weak minded but many people do for what i
would see as weak mindedness type reasons.
One of my friends referred to as blobson started smoking as he thought that was the only way (by my reckoning) to get with the so called cool gang. So he stood outside with the smokers and they would ponce fags off him. Mainly its the ones who start smoking when really they dont want to and like you say have low self esteem and want to be noticed more.
Its different when you are a kid, being weak minded then doesnt mean you are now.
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