Pump action shotguns are also illegal if they have a barrel shorter than 24 inches, or an overall length of less than 40 inches, which I believe was the case with Martin.
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Pump action shotguns are also illegal if they have a barrel shorter than 24 inches, or an overall length of less than 40 inches, which I believe was the case with Martin.
Think its the same type I used to shoot. Looks like a 3 shot, but might have been more. Is definately legal in the UK on a FAC and probably a shotgun cert. Also very cheap to buy 2nd hand probably around the £250 mark, bit of a classic pumpaction, but not really my thing, takes a lot of effort to run one.
http://www.edp24.co.uk/Content/Featu...RuralCrime.asp
Flibb
I think the fact that his house had been burgled so many times before was the crap factor in this case, the police had again done bugger all, and imo and one that tends to be growing inside me is that the criminal justice system in this country is quite frankly dead as a dodo.
We don't know how to correct criminals ways. We prosecute people who have defended themselves or there property and then to rub salt in the wound we allow them funds to sue the person they where about to rob.
Its all wrong if you ask me. I hardly think any of you could really stand up and say that if you had your house burgled 6 times, your mum was crying daily because she couldn't take any more etc and you heard someone downstairs and you where at breaking point you wouldnt find the nearest offensive weapon and go downstairs to investigate.
Sure Tony Martindale isn't the best example and i don't believe he should have killed the person but you've got to put yourself in his shoes rather than condemning a man without walking in his shoes first!.
Thanks
TiG
Gonna pick you up on some points here mate ;)Quote:
Originally posted by TiG
I think the fact that his house had been burgled so many times before was the crap factor in this case, the police had again done bugger all, and imo and one that tends to be growing inside me is that the criminal justice system in this country is quite frankly dead as a dodo.
We don't know how to correct criminals ways. We prosecute people who have defended themselves or there property and then to rub salt in the wound we allow them funds to sue the person they where about to rob.
Sure Tony Martindale isn't the best example and i don't believe he should have killed the person but you've got to put yourself in his shoes rather than condemning a man without walking in his shoes first!.
Thanks
TiG
We do NOT prosecute people for defending their property. Defending your property is perfectly legal. Tony martin could have defended his property by using blank cartridges and then reporting the incident to the police. I think we can all agree that what Tony Martin did went beyond defence.
Well, I totally agree with you. That's not what Tony Martin did tho is it!Quote:
you wouldnt find the nearest offensive weapon and go downstairs to investigate
At the end of the day I think he has got off lucky. When was he sent down? 1999? I think he can count himself VERY lucky...
Yer being burgled 6 times then going to prison for years and attempted to be sued by the little scroat who tried to burgle you is lucky.
Damn i'd hate to be unlucky :)
TiG
He did murder someone mate! I reckon he got off lightly tbh.
If the thief hadnt been in tony martins house then he would not have got shot. A simple way of looking at things but theres no way tony should have been charged with any crime. I just watched itn news and an american man who shot someone trying to break into his home was being congratulated :eek: surely there must be a happy medium ??
Im wondering if this 60K bounty on his head is serious or not.
Bottom line if you enter someone's property either house, car even garden shed with intent to do wrong then they should accept the actions of the owners of said property.
If the owner is unable to perform such actions then the law should allow you to either fine them or jail them or cut their hands off either of these three would be better than the punishment I would give them.
I believe the only reason TM went to jail because the person he shot was only 16.
Tan
So if I am trespassing on someones land, say I am walking across their field in the countryside, they are legally entitled to do what they like to me? Torture me? Rape me? How about lieing in wait and shooting me in the back by surprise with a shot gun, then leaving me to bleed to death without telling anyone?Quote:
Originally posted by tanman
Bottom line if you enter someone's property either house, car even garden shed with intent to do wrong then they should accept the actions of the owners of said property.
If the owner is unable to perform such actions then the law should allow you to either fine them or jail them or cut their hands off either of these three would be better than the punishment I would give them.
I believe the only reason TM went to jail because the person he shot was only 16.
Tan
I know I am taking things to an extreme, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. As it stands the line is drawn at defending yourself, and I am happy with that. I would have thought this was sufficient for most people. Those that overstep the mark (like Martin clearly had done), well, they have to abide by the law and take their medicine if they overstep the mark.
this case disgusts me. why should a man defending his property with the force he deems necesarry be imprisoned for 5 years or so, and the dirty gypo scumbag who was injured by him gets hardly any jail time for dealing f*****g heroin? the law has gone mad! tony martin's property had been broken into and stolen many, many times before, and the poor man was at the end of his tether. i have so much sympathy for him. the dirty scumbag pikeys who make stealing a lifetime occupation (i have a gypsy camp 5 mins walk from my house, i know what the b*****ds are like) only get a short sentence for selling something that kills many more people and ruins lives. this case is insane. killing pikeys should be legal anyway, in my eyes they are vermin, not humans.
Mate you might want to edit out that sweary asap...
Tbqh, I think that is not only the fault of the law system in this country, but also the attitudes of the people and society in general.
If a criminal breaks into somewhere, tries to rape some girl, and is stopped by a boyfriend with a baseball bat, then that criminal has every right to sue for damages caused from a baseball bat injury.
Lets face the facts now, everyone who has a brain realises this kind of outlook on life is wrong, and we are turning into a blame culture, caused mainly from, imo, America and its influences and also Claims Direct style companies.
People have a right to be protected, and if the police cannot do that (as is impossible in many cases), then these kinds of acts are going to happen.
In the case of TM, someone is breaking in YET AGAIN to steal your stuff, and you've got a shotgun next to your bed, what are u gonna do? I know I would pick it up. And this guy was obviously pretty ****ed off. I understand why he shot the guy, and I think he was in every right to do so.
Now hes being sued, and thats just the cherry on top of the cake really. I'm not sure if I agree with murder for theft, but equally if he had indeed gone downstairs with a baseball bat and batted the guy real hard once and killed him, would there have been the same uproar? I think not.
Why are people making such a big deal of one guy killing this scumbag, and ridding the planet of them for the rest of the good people? Gees, get a grip.
The media are never gonna leave this guy alone, and that in itself is completely unfair. Not matter where he moves hes gonna be followed by cameras and newspapers.
What a world we live in....
Here we go
A few years ago I was broke into they stole a few bits and bobs they where caught coming back for more. The local plod took my statement asking what was stolen.
To cut a long story short aboot 4000 grands worth. The plod said with that amount taken they should get a good sentence. I said what if I had gold taps worth 50000 would they get a bigger sentence, he more or less said yes. I then asked if I didn't have two penny's to my name and had a cheap radio of which I listened to each day and they stole this would their sentence only be a couple of days..... !!!!!
Bottom line a gold tap or cheap radio if you violate other peoples property you should accept what ever punishment that is dealt to you.
Tan
He can try to sue but it would get thrown out immediately if the baseball bat were sufficient and also necessary to stop the rapist from committing his act. You are perfectly entitled to use reasonable force to protect yourself and prevent criminal action. You aren't however entitled to disable the attempted rapist then cave his head in with repeated blows.Quote:
Originally posted by [R4A]Bigman
If a criminal breaks into somewhere, tries to rape some girl, and is stopped by a boyfriend with a baseball bat, then that criminal has every right to sue for damages caused from a baseball bat injury.
But would you then use this shotgun to shoot someone who is unarmed in the back while they were trying to escape you with your shotgun, then leave them to bleed to death? If so then you should be locked up. There are many things Martin could have and should have done but failed to do so.Quote:
In the case of TM, someone is breaking in YET AGAIN to steal your stuff, and you've got a shotgun next to your bed, what are u gonna do? I know I would pick it up.
There's a significant difference between the likely outcome of hitting someone with a baseball bat and shooting them with a shotgun. You can kill someone with one random blow of not particular force with your hand or elbow if you hit them in the right place. However it would be a lot clearer that your intent was not to kill compared to using a pump-action shotgun. You also need to get your facts right too, Martin is not being sued by Brendon. The latter's legal team knew there would be no chance of any victory so didn't even start legal proceedings.Quote:
Now hes being sued, and thats just the cherry on top of the cake really. I'm not sure if I agree with murder for theft, but equally if he had indeed gone downstairs with a baseball bat and batted the guy real hard once and killed him, would there have been the same uproar?
If you want that sort of legal system, go and live in somewhere like Nigeria or other places that offer strict interpretation of Sharia law. We live in a civilised country with an impartial and independent judiciary and one where violent behaviour is rightly outlawed. A large part of our society is based on reasonable sentencing and treatment of offenders, devolving this process from the immediate emotion and anger felt by whoever a crime is committed against.Quote:
Originally posted by tanman
If the owner is unable to perform such actions then the law should allow you to either fine them or jail them or cut their hands off either of these three would be better than the punishment I would give them.