Martin determined to return home....

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Originally posted by Big RICHARD
The problem with this is it's seen as not having remorse for shooting someone. If you get punched in the street and defend yourself until the other person is in a bloody heap, unconscious, then not calling an ambulance would get you done under the unreasonable force argument. Even if you feel like leaving the little bastard to die! TM felt like leaving the rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish to die, but shouldn't really have done it (in the eyes of the law). He was probably getting his own back for the fear he was in and also preventing a reoccurance of his house getting burgled in the future. It's a method of crime prevention, a bit harsh I know, but it works!

I would have called the ambulance, but I might have made sure they were both dead first. I don't know, people react in strange ways to fear and anger.

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But TM doesn't have any remorse for what he did. So i'm still to a loss to what it has to do with things?.

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not_your_punk i stil don't see why he was punished for ridding the world of a dirty thieving gypsy

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Because the law states he did it with unreasonable force and showed no remorse for it. If he had phoned the emergancy services he might have got away with it.

Different sitaution i know but i think you'll find that someone who killed a child while speeding would get less of a prison sentance if he was sorry for someone who wasn't sorry. Just trying to point out we're all influenced by human nature.

TiG

he obviously has a greater amount of honour and dignity than most people, as he refused to acknowledge what he did as being wrong, as he believed it was right. if a man can stand up for himself and what he believes, even when being threatened with jail or whatever, he gets a hell of a lot of my respect.

gypsies shouldn't be classed as human anyway, they scrounge and steal to live. hmmm...reminds me of a certain rodent...

and by doing that and standing up and being counted with his morales got him 3 and a bit yrs in prison. I can understand his situation not_your_punk, but killing a man in whatever situation seems terrible to me, I would feel guilty about it. Taking someones life is terrible however bad they are.

Not feeling any sort of remorse for it is shocking.

TiG

Nelson Mandela went to prison. Remember that? Now he's a hero. Albeit in a different field, but TM is fighting for his beliefs and a lot of people agree with him. I'm one of them.

But did Nelson Mandela kill a man?. Infact did Nelson Mandela actually commit a crime.? Apart from speak his mind?

TiG

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Originally posted by TiG
But did Nelson Mandela kill a man?. Infact did Nelson Mandela actually commit a crime.? Apart from speak his mind?

TiG

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Nelson Mandela's crime was to be born with brown skin! Stupid I know, but in apardheid South Africa this was basically the case. He made his crime worse by asking for equality (for what was seen then as a second class citizen) for black people. Nelson Mandela has never killed anyone (as far as I know).

The point is, TM is fighting for a wrong to be put right. (In his mind)

i agree the punishment should fit the crime, but in this situation I think the punishment DOES fit the crime.

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Originally posted by not_your_punk
gypsies shouldn't be classed as human anyway, they scrounge and steal to live. hmmm...reminds me of a certain rodent...

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AMEN

I'm sorry, can we please stop verbally attacking gypsies? Seriously, it's not on.

Will reply tomorrow to this thread. You guys are a bit out of control tonight!

Hint: The law is not meant to be different for "normal" people and gypsies. The fact that TM killed a gypsy is irrelevant...

Oh sorry

They are lovely people then :rolleyes:

I just dont like cultural stereotyping, that's all. There's no need for a roll eyes. Take each person on their merit, OK? People are mentioning Nelson Mandela in this thread - they would do well to read his biography and realise that pre-judging people based on an attribute they were born with is called prejudice and is not good...

OK

<damn damn damn I'm getting drawn itno this again>

To call all Gypsies/Pikeys etc scum is a generalisation and I suppose it is incorrect to do this. However having lived in close proximity to them and having regularly witnessed what they do to peoples private property, I have nothing good to say about them at all.

However, as we live in a civilised society I shall refrain.

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Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
I just dont like cultural stereotyping, that's all. There's no need for a roll eyes. Take each person on their merit, OK? People are prejudice and is not good...

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pikeys have merits now? i'd like you to list them

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Originally posted by not_your_punk
he obviously has a greater amount of honour and dignity than most people, as he refused to acknowledge what he did as being wrong, as he believed it was right. if a man can stand up for himself and what he believes, even when being threatened with jail or whatever, he gets a hell of a lot of my respect.

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Some of the most despicable men in history both refused to acknowledge what they did was wrong and did things the vast majority of normal people found extremely wrong. I won't prompt Godwin's law, but Osama Bin Laden, Pol Pot, Stalin, those in the IRA bombing of Manchester, all people getting a hell a lot of your respect? How about all the paedophiles who see no problem in their actions, or your favourite group, the gypseys for standing up to stereotyping and living life in a generally 'unaccepted' way? Returning to the more renowned people I mentioned, fundamentalism and unbridled ideologism are very very dangerous things, especially when combined with a position of power.

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Originally posted by not_your_punk
pikeys have merits now? i'd like you to list them

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Actually i'd love to hear these aswell, some of my moms side of my family live near a large park where they often camp, i've seen the damage these people can do to a community.

The fact of the matter is that it is utterly out of order to blanket a group of people who live in a certain manner together and then apply certain attributes to them. Not all people are the same.

If you have experience of a group of gypsies near you then it's fine for you to say "these particular gypsies near where I live are ****s because of x and y and z" but saying that ALL gypsies are like that it not on IMHO.

I know it's a bad analogy, but it's exactly what happened to Jews in 1930's Germany.

I didn't generalise them, and that is a terrible analogy mate.

But ALL the people i've talked to have had bad experiences and all the times i've seen them they've been up to no good.

I hate to stereotype and generalise as i hate it when its done to me, but until i see a group of gypsys/pikeys/whatever you wanna call em, living honestly on they're own land i will continue to have my current opnion.