The last budget

Well, I've already been tapped up for my 3% stamp duty (not even my soliciter could tell me where that money goes to) which makes that the most expensive set of house keys I've ever purchased. I'd love to see a property under £120 000 in Sussex. One worth living in. But then we'd never vote labour anyway so why bother to pander to the rich southerner?

I'm not going to be due for a £200 rebate on my council tax. But I don't want that. I'd rather have things like streetlighting, a police response time that can be measured with something quicker than an hour glass. Some public services would be nice. Currently I think we have some of the most expensive bin bags in the UK. I don't see a lot else for my council tax. The poor Londoners will have to stump up even more if London gets the olympics as significant money is proposed to be raised through council tax increase. I'm glad the pensioners have got a break. A massive £16 per month. 3 packets of cigarettes if you are a smoking pensioner. Make that 2 20's and a pack of 10. Though I wonder who will take up the slack for the rebates? Don't pensioners already get free bus travel?....I guess not.

Tax credits for the low paid. Ok, I'll admit I don't know much about that. Perhaps I should have done as when I was out of work I didn't get anything. I was offered £50 a week dole at which point I laughed and didn't bother to research any further instead putting all my energy into creating work for myself.

Inheritance tax. I'm not dead so that doesn't really affect me. However. My kids will have to stump up for that if I was to drop dead tomorrow. On the house alone. Now, as I understand it. None of the inheritance can be liquidated to pay the tax bill and if you don't raise the cash to pay the bill the estate reverts to the crown. £275 000 catches a significant section of the population now. For a tax that was designed to hit only the very well off it hits a lot of normal hardworking families.

But all in all it was a pretty dull budget. Nothing much for anyone really but no one got raped either. So the question is. Is it a 'vote now pay later' budget? After all petrol duty, for example, is frozen until September, after which the govt will have most of it's 4 year term before it has to worry about pandering to the great unwashed again. Maybe it's a typical dull Brown budget with stealthy taxes slipped in along the way.

Paid maternity leave to rise to a year. That's nice. Who pays for it? As a small business I have been put off hiring because of the costs. I couldn't afford to pay someone to be at home for a year. Even at a reduced rate. Hence if I was to recognise a need to hire I would be automatically wary of hiring a woman of child bearing age. Except maybe on a rolling contract basis. This will do nothing to aid the cause of equality for women in the workplace. As for paternity leave. Pffft, bonding with the newborn? Most blokes would take the chance for an extra few rounds of Call of Duty while being paid.

Why should we pay students to stay in school? Who pays for kids to stay at school til they are 18? If kids want to go on to higher education then perhaps it should be made easier for them to get grants which will be paid back at low interest rates capped at inflation for example. Instead of just handing out dole when they turn 17.

£3.7bn on defence. There's a nice down payment on a Eurofighter. If it's ever completed. Ohhh...and and extra £400 mill for defence slotted in...ummm...We can buy some new boots too, or maybe a couple of missiles for when we finish paying for that Eurofighter. Failing that it can pay the airfares for the army roulemont of Iraq, Bosnia, Ireland, 2 weeks leave and back to Iraq again.

ISA's given extended credit. Why did they screw with the PEP in the first place?

More private houses on council estates....why?

More debt reduction for 19 countries. 19 new Lear jets for some banana republic despots then (oops...too cynical?) Ummm....who pays for that? We could buy the rest of that Eurofighter, or maybe some more boots on the defense budget on that.

No tax increase on small/medium cars....a Porche is nice and small :D Get that nasty big Mondeo taxed up :p

VAT returns tobe simplified for small firms.....How much did you turn over last month?.....Give it to us.

The bottom line here is it's half 1 in the morning. I'm working a night shift and I'm bored. There are some good things but I'll let someone else highlight those or we'll have nothing to argue about.

This Budget in short:

Step 1: Blag a bit more cash out of the big oil companies, by getting them to pay at different times of the year, freeing up a large wadge of cash.

Step 2: Give afformentioned wadge of cash to pensioners, people with a gammy leg, and puppies.

Step 3: Hope that this is enough to get your average Daily Mirror reader to vote Labour again.

I'll go with Michael Howard, its a vote now, pay later budget. Not so much a scam as a rather transparent, semi-botched 'vote for me, I am nice to old people' budget.

Who do voters like more; oil companies or old women who knit? Its the old folks. So, create the impression you've moved heaven and earth to give them all loads of cash (when thats far from the case) and the 'master plan' is complete.

What a genius. :D

Still, I'm sure you'll all be there, bleating as you tick the Labour box come the general election. Sheep... so easily fooled, don't you find? :)

Usual cr@p

Still another year goes by in rented accomodation, can't buy our own place because in this glorious time of sustained economic growth the prices are too high, bugger the problem of stamp duty.

As usual this budget has done nothing for me, apart from making us pay 7p more on fags.

ain't life grand

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Originally Posted by RVF500

Well, I've already been tapped up for my 3% stamp duty (not even my soliciter could tell me where that money goes to)

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Pretty sure it goes to the exchequer?

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which makes that the most expensive set of house keys I've ever purchased. I'd love to see a property under £120 000 in Sussex. One worth living in. But then we'd never vote labour anyway so why bother to pander to the rich southerner?

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Why indeed?:)

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Tax credits for the low paid. Ok, I'll admit I don't know much about that. Perhaps I should have done as when I was out of work I didn't get anything. I was offered £50 a week dole at which point I laughed and didn't bother to research any further instead putting all my energy into creating work for myself.

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Up to you. Claiming the dole is pretty easy though, so it's not the government's fault if you were too lazy to do it. I don't see how recieving an extra £50 a week stops you putting all your energy into finding a job.

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Inheritance tax. I'm not dead so that doesn't really affect me. However. My kids will have to stump up for that if I was to drop dead tomorrow. On the house alone. Now, as I understand it. None of the inheritance can be liquidated to pay the tax bill and if you don't raise the cash to pay the bill the estate reverts to the crown.

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Um....what? Nowhere could I find any evidence that this is true.

http://www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/leaflets/iht3.htm

http://www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/leaflets/iht13.htm

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£275 000 catches a significant section of the population now. For a tax that was designed to hit only the very well off it hits a lot of normal hardworking families.

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Well according to the government it affects 4% of people. Personally I don't think 4% is a particularly significant section of the population.....and I say that knowing that right now my mum's property assets put her well over the threshold, and that my dad will probably be a long way over by the time he dies.

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Is it a 'vote now pay later' budget? After all petrol duty, for example, is frozen until September, after which the govt will have most of it's 4 year term before it has to worry about pandering to the great unwashed again.

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Well, after the 'petrol protests' in 2000 they are unlikely to significantly jack up fuel duty. The garage outside my house has gone back over 80p a litre of unleaded, so I'd say this is a reaction to continued high oil prices.

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Paid maternity leave to rise to a year. That's nice. Who pays for it? As a small business I have been put off hiring because of the costs. I couldn't afford to pay someone to be at home for a year.

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As a small business the cost is largely borne by the taxpayer, in fact. You wouldn't have to pay for someone to be at home for a year.

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As for paternity leave. Pffft, bonding with the newborn? Most blokes would take the chance for an extra few rounds of Call of Duty while being paid.

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So what? It's not up to the government to dictate to people how to behave, if men choose to abuse their right to paternity leave that's not the government's fault.

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More private houses on council estates....why?

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So people can have realistic aspirations of home ownership? Which might be a good motivator for people to work hard and try and better themselves?

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No tax increase on small/medium cars....a Porche is nice and small :D Get that nasty big Mondeo taxed up :p

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Road tax is now calculated on the basis of the amount of CO2 a car produces per kilometre travelled (as I'm sure you're aware). If Porsche could somehow make a Cayenne that did 50mpg it'd be cheap to tax.

I dont get the whole inheritance tax thing tbh, you pay taxes all your life then when you die whoever you give stuff to has to pay a wodge of tax on it and then pay tax on it until they die...

Plus it takes ages for the solicitors to sort it all out, meanwhile all of the accounts are frozen so what happens to the interest that would of been generated from the estate?

Hey ho, thing is who do we vote for, you vote of Conservative cos it'll get Labour out, but at the end of the day there all politicians so its a loose loose situation rite...?

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Originally Posted by [GSV]Trig

I dont get the whole inheritance tax thing tbh, you pay taxes all your life then when you die whoever you give stuff to has to pay a wodge of tax on it and then pay tax on it until they die...

Plus it takes ages for the solicitors to sort it all out, meanwhile all of the accounts are frozen so what happens to the interest that would of been generated from the estate?

Hey ho, thing is who do we vote for, you vote of Conservative cos it'll get Labour out, but at the end of the day there all politicians so its a loose loose situation rite...?

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You gotta vote for who you think can do the best! Whether that's best for your personal wealth, for the good of the community or the environment, it's up to you. Personally I'm quite selfish. I'm considering voting for anyone that will scrap tuition fees and save me £18K over the next few years! (Two kids coming up to Uni age). However I'm not naive enough to think that the Tories will look after anyone other than the rich b******s ;).

Inheritance Tax??? Cant understand the problem here. I guess it's because I am one of 6 kids and my parents will leave next to nothing. I'm also fairly sure my Mother-in-law will out live me. But essentially it's a windfall anyway. I have no wish that my parents should leave me money. I want them to use what little wealth they have to enjoy the short years left in their lives.

The money raised by taxes goes to the benefit of the country. The only question is whether you want to tax high and spend high or tax low and spend low. Perhaps the way the government distribute the dosh may also be a concern, but I'm sure most ppl will agree we need hospitals, schools, police and armed forces?

Stamp Duty was a joke. As Skii says, if you cant afford to get on the ladder, you're stuck. Period. Fags booze and petrol....up....bound to have happened.

bored with it all :(

Petrol's frozen, a pack of 20 and a pints up 8p though, just more incentive for people to buy from smugglers...

Say what you like, the man is a genius. He really is the ace in the pack as far as Labour are concerned. Whatever the Tories say, the fact of the matter is that he has done a masterful job with the economy. Compared to the way Thatcher and Major dealt with things during their time in power, there is no comparison.

Genius or not Beeenie, as a single working person living with my partner in rented accomodation, with no kids, no medical afflictions, driving to work and back every day , he ain't a genius to me.

The economy is wondeful if you bought your ex-council house for 29p 8 years ago and have 6 kids, you work for a large London based Bank, like buying everything on credit and have a pregnant wife.

I'm very pleased for the economy

Over the bloody moon in fact.

I'm glad I don't smoke

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Originally Posted by Skii

Genius or not Beeenie, as a single working person living with my partner in rented accomodation, with no kids, no medical afflictions, driving to work and back every day , he ain't a genius to me.

The economy is wondeful if you bought your ex-council house for 29p 8 years ago and have 6 kids, you work for a large London based Bank, like buying everything on credit and have a pregnant wife.

I'm very pleased for the economy

Over the bloody moon in fact.

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I'm not saying that everything is perfect for everybody, but if you look at things like the unemployment rate in mainland Europe (especially Germany), the relatively calm financial markets compared to the US and a number of other things, I think we are very lucky...

Edit: Brown made a BIG move to someone in your position looking to buy their first home...

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Originally Posted by Zak33

Stamp Duty was a joke. As Skii says, if you cant afford to get on the ladder, you're stuck. Period. Fags booze and petrol....up....bound to have happened.

bored with it all :(

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Stamp duty is good, theyve raised it from 60 to 120k.....with flats round here goin for about 100k, it means itll be cheaper for a first time buyers ? Shame....by the next time he raises it prices will be sky rocketed and a flat will cost over 120k and everyone will end up paying it again :( No doubt when I come to buy a place

Fags and booze as expected.....shame, wish fags went up a bit more to stop people smoking....and beer went up less to aid the get roger a beer belly fund

The government are shooting emselves in the foot taxing fags even more, up to nealry £5 a pack for some brands, are people gonna pay that or £25 for 200 from the shady bloke in the pub, I know which I choose.

In brief answer to rich. I am well hammered by the inheritance tax band and I really don't consider myself in the top 4% of the country. Far from it. My comment on the £50, I decided that it wasn't worth claiming as it wouldn't really help my situation much at all I was either going to go down or rise up on my own and did it off my own back. In fact I was so lazy and grasping I took nothing from welfare, used my own resources (every penny I had and plenty I didn't as well) and created enough work out of just about nothing to not only keep my home (just) but come out the other side and make progress. Perhaps everyone should be so lazy. Their lives might improve. The idea of peopel improving themselves because there are private houses on council estates is naive imo. We need more council housing not expensive private housing. It is also at odds with the idea that elitism is a bad thing. Can't have it both ways. For my sins one of the jobs I did, albeit briiefly, was 'financial advisor' and inheritance tax planning was one of the things I got involved in. A very murky area. The things I have stated above are to the best of my recollection true. I'm not sure on the time limit that one has in which to pay the tax before the estate reverts but most resort to getting out a bank loan if they can to pay the tax before liquidating assets.

There are plenty of poor southerners it seems my sarcasm escaped you. Sussex once had one of the highest unemployment figures for example. Early 90's as I recall.

Dabeen....How well do you remember Thatcher? I remember her quite well as I was an adult when she was came in to power. You may (or may not) remember she came in to power at a very difficult time when the unions were threatening to strangle the economy with restrictive working practices. The free market economy we enjoy now is a result of her not allowing that. Europe was in a state of flux and we were tied in to the ERM at the wrong time and suffered for it. If you look you will see that the interest rate situation and devaluation was a result of the actions of other countries and an experiment with common economic policy. Something your pseudo-capitalist heroes are trying to tinker with again. I also remember that her and John Major's govts began the growth and stabilised the economy that has given us such a steady time of late while other countries around Europe struggle.

As for stamp duty, it's not just first time buyers that suffer. I had to drop the price of my house by £15000 as it was just over the stamp duty band and wouldn't sell at it's market value. I then had to pay a further £10 000 + for the stamp duty on my new home. That in one fell swoop was a decent family wage paid in tax, and loss forced on me by the stamp duty bands, to hand over one set of keys and pick up another. I seem to remember you trying to give me a hard time on my legal moves to mitigate my taxation. I pay tax, and plenty of it. How can he say that the new level of duty would exempt 47% of property purchaces when only 27% of properties sold last year fell below the £120 000 threshold and the average house price in the UK now is £145 000? The other thresholds stay in place. The harder you work to improve your lot. The more you pay.

For me this budget is a small cash giveaway to try and bribe a few swing voters. The same sort of budget preceded the last 2 elections and tax rises followed each election. £5 billion pounds tax on pensions? a real boon for savers. When this mob took over Britain ranked 4th in the world as a place to run a business. It now ranks 11th. A £56 billion projected surplus has been turned into a £45 billion real deficit. Thank God he's a genius or we'd be little more than a banana republic by now. He's had the equivelent of a Ferrari economy in which to race and the vehicle has flattered the driver. Again accountants are pointing to holes in the figures. They did that with IR35 telling the revenue that it would result in a net loss. The accountants were ignored, the revenue made a net loss. The answer to the brain drain? Remove an unfair class tax or make it easier for Indian and New Zealand IT professionals to get visas. I'll let you figure out what answer was plumped for. He's attacked small business shares. effectively charging tax twice on holders of alphabet shares, where different catagory of share have a different value. Oh, and keep an eye on your national insurance contributions.

Though to be fair he has done some good things. For example keeping a distance from common European monetary policy. At least for now.

I think all serious conversation finishes when someone says Thatcher did a good job for this country (let alone that waste of space called Major) ;)

And the only reason we have not signed up to European Monitory Union is Political (and political) and certainly not for any economic reasons.

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Originally Posted by RVF500

Paid maternity leave to rise to a year. That's nice. Who pays for it? As a small business I have been put off hiring because of the costs. I couldn't afford to pay someone to be at home for a year. Even at a reduced rate. Hence if I was to recognise a need to hire I would be automatically wary of hiring a woman of child bearing age. Except maybe on a rolling contract basis. This will do nothing to aid the cause of equality for women in the workplace. As for paternity leave. Pffft, bonding with the newborn? Most blokes would take the chance for an extra few rounds of Call of Duty while being paid.

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1. Paid Maternity leave is only paid for 6 months.
2. You may be missing out on hiring some bloody good talent. I would be wary of working for someone who had that kind of outlook. Be aware that people can take you to industrial tribunals for that kind of comment.
3. Paternity leave is a big step forward. Means that the woman can get back to work if she wants to. (and what's stopping the woman from sitting at home playing call of duty instead?)

And statutory maternity pay is reimbursed by the state anyway; small businesses get 100% back plus help with employee NI contributions over the period, and even larger organizations get 92% or more back. As far as the blokes taking the chance for a bit of extra CoD, statutory maternity (and thus paternity) pay is in the following amounts:

"If your average gross earnings are £79.00 a week or more, Statutory Maternity Pay is paid for 26 weeks:
First 6 weeks 90% of your weekly earnings with no upper limit
Remaining 20 weeks £102.80 or 90% of your average weekly earnings if this is less than £102.80"

So I don't think you're going to be upgrading to that X850XT-PE off it, RVF....

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Originally Posted by RVF500

In brief answer to rich. I am well hammered by the inheritance tax band and I really don't consider myself in the top 4% of the country. Far from it.

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Originally Posted by Inland Revenue

The majority of estates, more than 96%, do not have to pay any inheritance tax because they are below the threshold.

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So, either the Inland Revenue are lying or your estate is amongst the top 4% most valuable in the country. There's no other explanation.

Anyway, you're 'well hammered' by it are you? Let's do some back of a fag packet calculations then. I assume if you're significantly affected that makes your estate worth a lot more than £265,000, so we'll say £400,000. I'm not sure how many kids you have, three is it? So, If inheritance tax was abolished tomorrow and you died the day after, your kids would inherit about £133,000 each. Paying the 40% Inheritance Tax on the top £137,000, they get a smidge over £115,000 each. So your kids get a mere £115,000 instead of £133,000? Forgive me if I don't shed a tear for them:rolleyes:.

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My comment on the £50, I decided that it wasn't worth claiming as it wouldn't really help my situation much at all I was either going to go down or rise up on my own and did it off my own back. In fact I was so lazy and grasping I took nothing from welfare, used my own resources (every penny I had and plenty I didn't as well)

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Right, well had you taken the money you would have had to borrow a bit less. I can't see your point at all; you moan about this grasping government taking from us all the time with stealth taxes etc. and yet when they actually offer to give you something back you refuse it.

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The idea of peopel improving themselves because there are private houses on council estates is naive imo. We need more council housing not expensive private housing.

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The whole point is that it'll be cheap private housing. I agree that councils should also be building more council houses for people who are in no position to buy whatever the cost of the house.

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For my sins one of the jobs I did, albeit briiefly, was 'financial advisor' and inheritance tax planning was one of the things I got involved in. A very murky area. The things I have stated above are to the best of my recollection true. I'm not sure on the time limit that one has in which to pay the tax before the estate reverts but most resort to getting out a bank loan if they can to pay the tax before liquidating assets.

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Read the links I provided earlier (I just corrected one). Interest is chargeable on any accounts not settled within six months, and penalties become payable if they're not settled withing a year, unless there are mitigating circumstances.

I could find no evidence that the estate would at any time revert to the crown.

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There are plenty of poor southerners it seems my sarcasm escaped you.

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I know, I'm one of them. Your sarcasm did indeed escape me.

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Originally Posted by Knoxville

The government are shooting emselves in the foot taxing fags even more, up to nealry £5 a pack for some brands, are people gonna pay that or £25 for 200 from the shady bloke in the pub, I know which I choose.

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Me too... I don't smoke

I DO smoke, and buy my cigarettes legally, so it's not inevitable that people will cheat. It's a choice; buy legally and pay the tax, or be a criminal.

....or buy them legitimately from France or Belgium. It's swings and roundabouts for me, I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world and haven't a hope in hell of buying my own home, but at least I can get to the Channel Tunnel in a little over an hour;).

i dont really know what to think. do i think the tories would do any better, no way
they will say anything to get into power it feels.
i think the libs will get more seats than ever which is a good thing a bit more of a spread in parliment will be good.

it seems gordon must be a fan of turkey twizlers seeing as no mention of school dinners haha

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Originally Posted by tiggerai

2. You may be missing out on hiring some bloody good talent. I would be wary of working for someone who had that kind of outlook. Be aware that people can take you to industrial tribunals for that kind of comment.

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I may be missing out on good talent. On the other hand I may save myself a headache. I don't employ, much as I would like to. I also believe in paying top dollar for top people. I like the idea of contract working primarily because that's the way I work myself and I'm very comfortable with it. It allows me a degree of flexibility that I wouldn't have as a permanent employee. It is also more tax efficient. Ultimately if I do employ it will be on my terms. After all I want to run a profitable organisation not a charity. As does anyone else who runs a business. I'm simply not big enough to offer large scale benefits to employees and actually believe I could give mt best deal by paying gross and letting the employee decide how they want to spend their money. Others may disagree.

Not quite sure how I would be dragged in front of a tribunal for saying that legislation makes me wary and may well make others wary of employing a certain person. Though Nicho has pointed out something that I didn't know which basically says that small businesses are protected. So I stand corrected.

Rave, the figures are such that I don't really want to go into but the amount that I would have got from the welfare would ultimately have made little or no difference to me so I decided not to take it. Left it in the pot for someone who needed it more than me. I gambled and won. If I'd lost then I would have sold the house, paid the debts and started again. Doesn't stop me from thinking that the govt is grasping.

Well, the increase in the Stamp Duty Land Tax threshold means that I have saved my client some money on his £65,000/year rental agreement!! :shocked2: and :rockon:

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Originally Posted by nichomach

I DO smoke, and buy my cigarettes legally, so it's not inevitable that people will cheat. It's a choice; buy legally and pay the tax, or be a criminal.

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I was never sure of this, does it make you a criminal for buying dodgy ciggies ? I mean, if they come in from say France, and the tax has been paid to the french government, is there anything wrong with buying them ? Your not dodging taxes, your just paying a lower rate to a different government.

There's nothing wrong with buying cigs in the EU for personal use, but buying them there and reselling them here is basically illegal (evasion of duty etc).

It's completely illegal in fact; technically even buying stuff for your friends and passing it on at cost price is illegal. In practical terms that sort of thing is very hard to police though obviously.

Inheritance tax....tell me why my kids should pay tax on goods and property that I have paid tax on all my life? 94% escaping inheritance tax? Not sure how they came by their figures but I wouldn't mind betting they are represented in a manner best designed to promote the policy. They could of course simply be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

I wouldn't want you to shed a tear for them anyway rave. They know how to make the best of a situation, they've been poor too (the 2 oldest have). So have I. I grew up in a council flat in a 1 parent family. I was also homeless for a while so being poor is nothing new to me. In fact we stood and watched single parent families being housed while we waited. Though the lib dem housing officer did say to my wife that if she left me then they would house her and the kids. Forgive me if I don't vote lib dem. I value my family too much.

I've been fairly wealthy too. I know which I prefer. I work hard to provide the best grounding for my growing family and to keep them in the best manner that I can whilst preparing for as comfortable retirement for myself and my wife as possible. I don't want to be a burden to my kids or the state. Why should I, or anyone like me, be penalised for working hard? Why, because I work hard and improve my standards, should I be penalised more for buying a nicer property? After all it vacates a property further down the ladder for someone else. If you saved hard to buy a nicer car how would you feel if the govt slapped an additional tax on that? Ok, you're a lib dem, you might go for that but I hope you see my point. Stamp duty should be flat, actually I think it should be abolished along with inheritance tax.

Interestingly most people who yell loudest about those with more should pay more are not going to be affected by such payment increases. Tell me, does a higher rate tax payer who loses their job get benefits in line with the greater contribution they have made while working or do they just get the same as someone who may never have contributed? By which I do not mean someone who has not been capable of contribution. If income tax was flat people who get more pay more anyway. however, my big beef is with stealth and class taxes as opposed to income tax.

Now, my stance on the private housing on council estates comes from personal experience. I moved out of council/housing association into a private house. This house happened to be in the very next street and was a new developement. My erstwhile neighbours for some reason decided that I now thought I was too good for them. This was transmitted to their kids 3 of whom decided to set upon my son when he went round to play with his 'friends'. They actually came off worse in this exchange I'm happy to say. I hadn't changed towards them, they had towards me. It was an us and them situation the same type of situation that I believe would arise if private housing was built on council estates. Strangely this kind of thing doesn't seem to arise when tenants buy their council homes. Maybe because outwardly nothing changes. I dunno. Inexpensive, affordable housing needs to be built. I gree wholeheartedly. But should be built on private estates.

Ah well, I can no longer moan about tax as I'm off to Malaysia to work and after a year will be free of UK income tax (providing the project goes that long) which is retrospective.

Before you all cheer, I'll be logging on to tweak rave's nose, argue with nicho and annoy dabeenster et al with my mere presence :p.

you have to be out a full tax year you know. so if you go after april you will have to stay effectively two years.

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Originally Posted by RVF500

Ah well, I can no longer moan about tax as I'm off to Malaysia to work and after a year will be free of UK income tax (providing the project goes that long) which is retrospective.

Before you all cheer, I'll be logging on to tweak rave's nose, argue with nicho and annoy dabeenster et al with my mere presence :p.

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You will need to be out of the UK for a complete tax year i.e. Leave BEFORE 6 April 2005 and return AFTER 5 April 2006 to be non-resident. However, if you leave part way through a year but expect to be non-resident for the entirety of the next year, you can claim a split year and be non-resident for the part of the first year you are out, i.e.:

Leave July 2005 and return May 2006 - You will be resident for the full period

Leave July 2005 and return May 2007 - You will be non-resident for 06/07 AND can claim split-year non-residency for July 2005 to April 2006 for 05/06

I'll PM you my bill... ;)

Dunno if my accountant will like you nicking his clients from under him ;)

I was non-resident for over 4 years before which is why I'll be out before the end of the current tax year (Saturday). In fact I'll be in the states for a week first and then fly on to KL a couple of days after I get back which will also be just on the cusp as it happens, but on the right side of it. Will keep my accountant happy as he was wondering how he was going to keep his record of low taxation for me in the face of UK income.

Good for you RVF. pleased for you mate, I plan to move out of this country once I have made enough cash. Get some nice property for nowt in some backwater eastern european country or sommat. :)

Must say my overall impression on the tax issue is that none of the partys has an answer although I do belive the Lib Dems are the most honest about it. The Tories actually think they can reduce tax whilst spending increased whilst there is already a big difference between spending and revenue, This I think is pure crap tbh.

I couldnt trust Tony again and I can well imagine fuel duty and national insurance rises in the next term (if they get it whitch they almost certainly will). Lib dems, 1p on income tax for those over £100k? sounds fair enough to me tbh and I aim to be at that earning level at some point, I would love to see the end of council tax and some proportional representation in parliment, so thats where my vote is going.

Stamp duty and inheritance tax, well total con arent they, I can imagine my parents estate being over that so I may get hit by that one. They do alright and my dad owns his own business but they are by no means rich, more just secure. I really dont think this is really a tax that will not effect 94% thats just ludicrus.

Stamp duty at 120k? well, its better but by no means where it should be, I am seriously considering never buying property here and just moving elsewhere (taking my skills with me). Houses here are overpriced (or more accurately the land is) and I refuse to move in some scrot-hole from hell when I earn over 30k pa.

Thanks G4Z. It looks like a large GSM rollout in that part of the world. Hopefully it will herald a real upswing in IT/Telecoms globally. I was in Malaysia for a short while in '97 and I'm looking forward to going back.

The answer to the last brain drain from the present govt was to make it easier for foriegn IT professionals to work in the UK. This was in the wake of IR35 when I large number of IT contractors took their skills elsewhere in response to that particular class tax. I was one of them. So I don't blame you for thinking the same way. Bulgaria looks good. Get out there before the property agencies screw it up.

It did indeed worry the govt as Lord Somerset (if I remember correctly) was sent to meet with a contractors lobby group (I forget the name but they were very well organised and representative and mounted a number of legal challenges to the tax) out in Holland to see if common ground could be found. The engineers simply wanted IR35 revoked, the revenue had made a net loss anyway on it, and tax would be paid through normal company rules. Dawn Primorolo famously stated 'they earn too much anyway' and the tax stayed. How someone with an expense account alone exceeding the average contractors gross income can come out with that statement is beyond me. Not only did the revenue make a net loss as the accountants association warned them. They lost a significant amount of new money coming into the country.

I see the £200 pensioner rebate has come under fire today. Apparently if any other credits are received then the pensioners aren't entitled. It also seems to be at the mercy of means testing. Only read it quickly on the train on the way in so I'll have a more in depth look later.

The Lib Dems may be honest about tax but in the great scheme of things I personally think they are not equipped to run the country. Just an opinion, and I never sign on in here without my flame proof underwear ;)

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Originally Posted by RVF500

Inheritance tax....tell me why my kids should pay tax on goods and property that I have paid tax on all my life?

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Well, as far as I can see it's one way of putting a brake on the rich/poor divide. You can get wealthy and you can leave a lot of money to your kids, but the government takes a chunk. At the end of the day they take 40%, your beneficiaries still recieve £260,000 tax free and 60% of the rest, so the amount you leave them is still proportional to your wealth. It's likely that both my (soon to be divorced) parents will leave sizeable estates when they die; I'll be glad of the money if they leave some to me, but I don't feel any sense of entitlement to it. My Dad is currently buying a second home in a 'gated community':rolleyes: in Florida; after bills my wife and I have £100 to spend a week between us, and that includes food. I don't go to him for a handout though, because I believe in supporting myself.

When inheritance tax was introduced it only applied to the super-rich, that is true. There is an argument to be made that it should be re-evaluated in the light of the changing economic conditions in this country. However, a large (probably very large) proportion of the people who have become subject to it in recent years have done so because of the extrodinary increase in house prices. As you know, I would much rather that we had not seen such a huge rise; in that situation far fewer people would be subject to inheritance tax. I think that in this situation inheritance tax is entirely fair; the money people have 'made' through house price inflation should reasonably be counted as a capital gain IMO, and without applying either inheritance tax or Capital Gains tax to it, we are in danger of creating a class divide between those who were lucky enough to have bought property before the boom, and those who were not.

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I wouldn't want you to shed a tear for them anyway rave. They know how to make the best of a situation, they've been poor too (the 2 oldest have). So have I. I grew up in a council flat in a 1 parent family. I was also homeless for a while so being poor is nothing new to me. In fact we stood and watched single parent families being housed while we waited.

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My parents certainly weren't rich when I was born, they are fairly wealthy now. Overall you've probably had it harder than me though<shrugs>.

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Though the lib dem housing officer did say to my wife that if she left me then they would house her and the kids. Forgive me if I don't vote lib dem. I value my family too much.

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I wasn't aware that Housing Officer was an elected position?:confused: If you mean he was the housing officer for a Lib-Dem council then fair enough, but as I understand it local authorities are tightly constrained by the rules set out for them by central government. I don't think you would have had it any different under a Labour or Tory council.

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Why should I, or anyone like me, be penalised for working hard? Why, because I work hard and improve my standards, should I be penalised more for buying a nicer property? After all it vacates a property further down the ladder for someone else.

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Overall, I don't think you are penalised for working hard, albeit that I agree that a lot of tax rules are arcane and arbitrary. I have no problem with reforming taxes to ensure that they're levied in a fair and sensible fashion, I just don't think that we should be aiming to lower overall tax revenue. I agree that the stamp duty rules are silly, I think it should be a flat rate; I don't think it should be abolished in the current housing market for the same reasons as I don't think inheritance tax should be.

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Ok, you're a lib dem

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I'm not as it happens. I may vote for them as the least worst option in the forthcoming election, but I don't think my opinions of how a liberal government should be run coincide very closely with the opinions of the Liberal Democrat party. I'm in favour of a government that taxes and spends sensibly, intervenes in economic policy only as far as it's necessary to ensure growth, and that nobody gets left behind, and then leaves the citizens free to live how they like with minimal intervention.

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Interestingly most people who yell loudest about those with more should pay more are not going to be affected by such payment increases. Tell me, does a higher rate tax payer who loses their job get benefits in line with the greater contribution they have made while working or do they just get the same as someone who may never have contributed?

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Yes, they get more for at least the first six months (it's a few months since I looked into it, I forget the exact details). My wife has paid NI all her working life as I said (in another thread?), but since she's only ever had low paid jobs she didn't qualify for contribution based JSA, only income based.

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Now, my stance on the private housing on council estates comes from personal experience. I moved out of council/housing association into a private house. This house happened to be in the very next street and was a new developement. My erstwhile neighbours for some reason decided that I now thought I was too good for them. This was transmitted to their kids 3 of whom decided to set upon my son when he went round to play with his 'friends'. They actually came off worse in this exchange I'm happy to say. I hadn't changed towards them, they had towards me. It was an us and them situation the same type of situation that I believe would arise if private housing was built on council estates. Strangely this kind of thing doesn't seem to arise when tenants buy their council homes. Maybe because outwardly nothing changes. I dunno. Inexpensive, affordable housing needs to be built. I gree wholeheartedly. But should be built on private estates.

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<shrugs> Fair enough. Doesn't bother me whether they're built on council estates or not. I do however think that developers should be forced to integrate different levels of housing within one development, rather than as currently often happens, being allowed to build their mandatory affordable housing quota in a ghetto well away from their Luxury Executive Homes:rolleyes:.

Seems we actually agree on just about everything except the inheritance thing when it boils down to it. I still don't believe that tax paid goods should be taxed again simply because ownership within a family has changed. I thought that before I was caught in the inheritance dragnet. I will probably make planes to move assets offshore should I actually live long enough to grow old.

I assumed you were lib dem as in another thread you wrote something like .....as a lib dem I like taxes....or something like that. Obviously not a direct quote there.

I think that the lady in question was a councillor who was in charge of housing policy. Either way it was a Lib Dem council back then. It was a Tory councillor (female) plus one other (non-political housing officer I believe, also female) who basically brow beat her into getting us housed when we finally were.

I'm not in a pissing contest with you. There are many people who are worse off than you or I have or will ever be. I was illustrating a point of personal experience. Experiences that have definitely coloured my thinking.

I do think that the harder you work, the higher up the ladder you climb, the more you are targeted for taxation. Hence my comment the harder you work the more you are penalised. The jump from basic to higher rate is significant. Almost double. If not a flat rate then something more linear. Which govt would probably interpret as 'make it 60% when you get to £50k a year'

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Originally Posted by RVF500

I assumed you were lib dem as in another thread you wrote something like .....as a lib dem I like taxes....or something like that. Obviously not a direct quote there.

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Could be, I've only recently come to this realisation.

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I'm not in a pissing contest with you.

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Suits me, I'd undoubtedly lose;).

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I do think that the harder you work, the higher up the ladder you climb, the more you are targeted for taxation. Hence my comment the harder you work the more you are penalised. The jump from basic to higher rate is significant. Almost double. If not a flat rate then something more linear. Which govt would probably interpret as 'make it 60% when you get to £50k a year'

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It wasn't nearly double until the basic rate was dropped from 25% to 22% for the purposes of cheap political point scoring. That's one area I do agree with the Lib Dems on to be honest, in fact I'm strongly in favour of increasing income taxes in exchange for removing most other forms of tax....albeit that altering the prices of particular goods and services through taxation can be necessary for the overall good.

At the end of the day, I don't have a problem with the higher rate tax band because 1) as previously stated, those on a lower wage have to pay out a proportionally larger chunk of their income in tax anyway and 2) I don't see it as a disincentive to working hard and bettering oneself. O.K., so if you make say an extra £5000 a year you only get to keep £3000 of it, but that's still a hefty chunk of money and something that I'd be keen to work towards:).

I'd rather keep £4000 of the £5000. But that's me. If the govt was capable of spending wisely then I might be less militant about it. 'Spending wisely' seems to be an oxymoron to govt.

Funnily enough I was wondering what had happened to Margaret Beckett. She suddenly appeared in the paper the other day. I forget why now. But up until then the only time I can think of seeing her name since Labour came topower was in conjunction with lavish redecoration at taxpayers expense of her govt apartment. Not a bad track record for 8 years huh? And encapsulates the wise spending analagy nicely I htink. Let's not even start on the subject of MPs expense accounts.

Well I love having more than 50% of my earnings taken away, through tax, VAT, and other sneaky government means. Labour and Lib Dems are complete shisters. Bad as each other.

Anyway, bit off topic :P

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Originally Posted by Firebar

Well I love having more than 50% of my earnings taken away, through tax, VAT, and other sneaky government means.

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Yeah, tax and VAT are sneaky aren't they?:heckle:

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Labour and Lib Dems are complete shisters.

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Do you mean shyster?

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Bad as each other.

Anyway, bit off topic :P

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No, it's on topic, just nonsensical.

Wow, a labour fanatic or is it lib dem, usually something to be hiding in the closet about. ;)

Are you actually happy with this current government?

Gordon brown just happened to inherit the most favourable economic position this century. He was in the right place at the right time, nothing more.

My Father-in-law's mother just died and he inherited her estate (around the £1m mark). He isn't rich and would love to be able to give his current house to his 4 children to share and rent from, especially as one is a recent single mum (divorced). He could then move into the other house with his wife and a few years down the line sell it so they can retire to the canary islands with plenty of cash to keep them comfortable.

Unfortunately thanks to labour he has to pay out a whopping £140,000 over 10 years to keep the new estate, he cant do this so he HAS to sell his original house. Stealing is what it boils down to basically, his mother worked very hard for the money and I know for certain she would have wanted him to enjoy the house with no worries at all.

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Originally Posted by Firebar

Wow, a labour fanatic or is it lib dem, usually something to be hiding in the closet about. ;)

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Who me? Neither actually.

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Are you actually happy with this current government?

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No, but I have sensible reasons to dislike them.

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Gordon brown just happened to inherit the most favourable economic position this century. He was in the right place at the right time, nothing more.

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That's Gordon Brown, names generally need a capital on both the forename and surname. Anyway, the statement is debatable, do you want to back that argument up?:)

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My Father-in-law's mother just died and he inherited her estate (around the £1m mark). He isn't rich

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Correction....if he inherited her entire estate in its entirety he is rich; if it was worth £1m, then after inheritance tax it's worth £704,000.

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and would love to be able to give his current house to his 4 children to share and rent from, especially as one is a recent single mum (divorced). He could then move into the other house with his wife and a few years down the line sell it so they can retire to the canary islands with plenty of cash to keep them comfortable.

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Right, so explain how he can't do that with £700,000?:rolleyes:

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Unfortunately thanks to labour he has to pay out a whopping £140,000 over 10 years to keep the new estate, he cant do this so he HAS to sell his original house. Stealing is what it boils down to basically, his mother worked very hard for the money and I know for certain she would have wanted him to enjoy the house with no worries at all.

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Yeah well whoop-di-do. He didn't work hard for it did he? He's still a rich bloke, why the hell should any of us feel sorry for him?

You seem to take this all very very strongly (not to mention personally!). :eek: At least you can pick on my grammar :P

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Yeah well whoop-di-do. He didn't work hard for it did he? He's still a rich bloke, why the hell should any of us feel sorry for him?

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It all comes down to the fact that HE owns the properties. They are in HIS family, not a bloody fat labour politician's. It's not much to ask to be able to keep what is yours and not have to pay out of the bloody nose for it.

So you telling me that after somebody dies, possibly requiring weeks or years of medical treatment that the state often pays for, (NHS hospitals are often better than private ones for serious conditions like heart problems and stuff). They shouldnt give somthing back to society when they leave a hefty amount behind?

That what your saying?

Edit: just realised how wrecked I was when i posted that, edited so it actually means what I mean.

Why give more? The NHS is there to be used, taxes are paid etc etc. Why hand over even more to the government rather than give it to your own family?

Agree to disagree I guess. People can say inheritance tax is fair, but just wait till it hits you in the bollocks :)

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Originally Posted by Firebar

The NHS is there to be used, taxes are paid etc etc.

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Yes, including inheritance tax.

Exactly. Why?

At least it wasnt so bad with the Conservative government.

I suppose its human nature to spite someone who ends up with a nice big house or a bit of cash. Can't have that, oh no, I'm not as lucky as that.

Oh FFS, inheritance tax has been around for decades, yes, under the Tories as well. So has capital gains tax. I bloody know, because both my father and mother worked in the Inland Revenue's Estate Duty Office in the '70s and '80s. I'd also remind you that it was the Tories who claimed to be the tax cutting party that DID cut income tax (i.e. tax related to your ability to pay), but moved the burden to indirect taxes like VAT (which massively increased during the last Conservative administration, and which hit people harder the less well off they were). Just remember that when you whinge about "stealth taxes". And remember that following their election in 79, the Tories increased the burdxen of taxation from 34% to 37% of our GDP. Now, I certainly don't like all of Labour's tax policies, but I know exactly what the Tories' "we'll save money by being more efficient" promises actually mean, because I saw the utter havoc of high interest rates, boom/bust economic performance and public service cuts that they led to. It makes me laugh when I see people argue "Things woz better under Maggie"; well if you consider tripling the rate of unemployment, wrecking the manufacturing sector and slashing public services "better", then I suppose so, yes. Look at the NHS; who remembers that organizational Charge of the Light Brigade that was the "internal market"? "How do we improve patient services, then? I know; we'll triple the number of administrators and cut 50,000 beds! Bonzer!"

And I'd further point out that to most people, £700,000 is not just a "bit of cash", it's a bloody fortune. And even after tax, that's what your family will end up with.

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Originally Posted by Firebar

Unfortunately thanks to labour he has to pay out a whopping £140,000 over 10 years to keep the new estate, he cant do this so he HAS to sell his original house.

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How about taking out a £140,000 mortgage over 25 years secured on the house - that'd ease the monthly payments.

(Pedant alert - yes, the mortgage could be for less than £140,000 but I can't be bothered to work out the NPV figure)