Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: I hate patriotism

  1. #1
    Goat Boy
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Alexandra Park, London
    Posts
    2,428
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    0 times in 0 posts

    I hate patriotism

    Discuss.
    "All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    10,835
    Thanks
    654
    Thanked
    374 times in 261 posts
    Theres nothing wrong with being patriotic if your not blinkered.

  3. #3
    0iD
    0iD is offline
    M*I*A 0iD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Happy Llama Land
    Posts
    13,247
    Thanks
    1,435
    Thanked
    1,209 times in 757 posts
    • 0iD's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Leave my mother out of it!
      • CPU:
      • If I knew what it meant?
      • Memory:
      • Wah?
      • Storage:
      • Cupboards and drawers
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Slate & chalk
      • PSU:
      • meh
      • Case:
      • Suit or Brief?
      • Operating System:
      • Brain
      • Monitor(s):
      • I was 1 at skool
      • Internet:
      • 28k Dialup
    I'm not completely against it per-se, but nationalist zealouts do get on my nerves.
    Nothing wrong with national identity but it's all getting slowly eroded by our increasingly homogenised global socitety.
    [
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzen
    When I say go, both walk in the opposite direction for 10 paces, draw handbags, then bitch-slap each other!

  4. #4
    G4Z
    G4Z is offline
    I'dlikesomebuuuurgazzzzzz G4Z's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    geordieland
    Posts
    3,172
    Thanks
    225
    Thanked
    141 times in 93 posts
    • G4Z's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte GA 965P-DS3
      • CPU:
      • Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
      • Memory:
      • 4gb DDR2 5300
      • Storage:
      • 2.5Tb
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte HD4870 512mb
      • PSU:
      • Tagan 470W
      • Case:
      • Thermaltake Tsunami Dream
      • Operating System:
      • Vista 64bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dual Acer 24" TFT's
      • Internet:
      • 16mb sky ADSL2
    National Identity is just a social construction, that is to say people just make it up as they go along, it will always change as time goes by, I would like to see the world as a whole working together, no boarders and no national governments (just the new world order headed up by yours truely). Thats probably pie in the sky, but you have to have a goal.

    Patriotism imho is somthing that doesnt really exist in the UK to the same extent as the US but it is starting to go that way.

    Good example is 9/11 where no politcial monkeys would comment on the motivation for the attacks as to do so would be unpatriotic (after all, bush is Tony's best mate), I seem to remember him saying somthing along the lines of "Nobody should try to understand these people they are just evil". to try and understand the motivation behind it would be to support terrorism somehow.

    That thinking also seems to have come across in the ID card rubbish that is soon to engulf us all.

    This may be gibberish as im tired, so apologies if I just wasted 30 secs of your time.
    HEXUS FOLDING TEAM It's EASY

  5. #5
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    SE London
    Posts
    9,948
    Thanks
    501
    Thanked
    399 times in 255 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Oxford English Dictionary
    patriot

    • noun a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it.
    http://www.askoxford.com/results/?vi...r=score%2Cname

    Hmm....can't see anything wrong with that TBH. I'm proud of Britain's history and despite all the crap of recent years I'm still fairly proud of the way we conduct ourselves as a nation. I would be prepared to fight to defend the country from enemies external....or internal

    I suspect Ben, if you actually agree with the thread title (as opposed to playing devil's advocate), what you actually hate is bigotry and xenophobia dressed up as patriotism.
    Last edited by Rave; 01-06-2005 at 08:24 PM.

  6. #6
    Illegal Alien wedge22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    1,947
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked
    0 times in 0 posts
    • wedge22's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS H87i PLUS
      • CPU:
      • 4770k
      • Memory:
      • 2x4GB Crucial Ballistix DDR3
      • Storage:
      • OCZ 240GB SSD and Seagate 3TB HDD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • PNY GTX 780 OC
      • PSU:
      • Silverstone SFX 450G
      • Case:
      • Fractal Node 304
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 8.1
      • Monitor(s):
      • Yamakasi 27" IPS and 1080p 100" Projector
      • Internet:
      • 50MB
    I too can see nothing wrong with patriotism and i am proud of my heritage and I have defended this country from enemies.
    Main Rig: i2600k@4.3Ghz/ASUS P8P67 PRO/MSi GTX580/16GB Mushkin/HAF X/Noctua NH-D14

  7. #7
    Senior Amoeba iranu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    On the dinner table. Blechh!
    Posts
    3,532
    Thanks
    111
    Thanked
    156 times in 106 posts
    • iranu's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Maximus Gene VI
      • CPU:
      • 4670K @4.3Ghz
      • Memory:
      • 8Gb Samsung Green
      • Storage:
      • 1x 256Gb Samsung 830 SSD 2x640gb HGST raid 0
      • Graphics card(s):
      • MSI R9 390
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX620W Modular
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master Silencio 352
      • Operating System:
      • Win 7 ultimate 64 bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • 23" DELL Ultrasharp U2312HM
      • Internet:
      • 16mb broadband
    Sadly so many words have had their meanings purposely twisted by others (notably the politically correct) in order to suit another agenda. e.g.

    Patriot = Little Englander = Anti EU = Xenophobe = Racist, therefore Patriot = Racist.

    That's why it's so important to do what Rave has done and get the dictionary out.

    I suspect that what DaBeenster might be alluding to is the more serious problem of unchecked Nationalism (which is usually a product/tool of polititians).

    I certainly think you can be patriotic without being nationalistic. Unfortunately patriotism has been labelled to be something bad (in this country) akin to being a member of the BNP. Hence anyone flying the Union Jack is labelled so.

    We need to take back our language from the ****holes who changed it, take pride in the achievements of our country, acknowledge the mistakes of the past (and learn from them) and stick two fingers up to the people who want to stop us uttering such phrases as "ship shape" and "Bristol fashion" in the misguided notion that it offends black people because of the slave trade. article here. If I could go and give these training firm people a slap (and record it on my mobilephone) I would. grrrrr
    "Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.

  8. #8
    Prize winning member. rajagra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,023
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    0 times in 0 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Rave
    I'm proud of Britain's history and despite all the crap of recent years I'm still fairly proud of the way we conduct ourselves as a nation.
    By jingo, he's right you know!
    DFI LanParty UT NF4 SLI-D; AMD64 3500+ Winchester ;
    2x XFX 6600GT ; Corsair XMS3200XLPRO TWINX 1GB;
    Dell 2405FPW TFT.

  9. #9
    LUSE Galant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Gibraltar
    Posts
    3,124
    Thanks
    448
    Thanked
    527 times in 320 posts
    I think there's a lack of gratitude in this world, and if patriotism means people recognise, remember and show thankfulness for what they have and what they've been given, then good. It's just nice to see some positive attitudes and not negative.
    No trees were harmed in the creation of this message. However, many electrons were displaced and terribly inconvenienced.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    1,041
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked
    8 times in 8 posts
    • oralpain's system
      • Motherboard:
      • DFI "Blood Iron" P35-T2RL
      • CPU:
      • Intel Pentium E2140 @ 400x8 (3.2GHz), 1.375v
      • Memory:
      • Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800 CL4 @ 500MHz (DDR 1000), 4-4-4-12-T2, 2.3v
      • Storage:
      • 2x Seagate ST3250410AS
      • Graphics card(s):
      • NVIDIA 8800GTS (G92) 512 @ 783MHz core, 1836MHz shader, 1053Mhz memory, stock cooling 70% fan speed
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic SS-500GB
      • Case:
      • Antec P182, with some small modifications
      • Monitor(s):
      • ASUS VW222U
      • Internet:
      • Time Warner "Road Runner" Cable - 16 megabit downstream, 1 megabit upstream
    What constitutes a "positive" or "negative' attitude is totaly subjective.

    I am highly sceptical of patriotisim. So many people are willing to blindly uphold what may be a false idea/impression of what their country is. Two people from the same country, both proclaiming to be patriots, can have totaly different ideas of what their nation is, or should be.

    I prefer to avoid nationalisim. I give my respect, loyalty, and obedience to individuals whom I feel have earned them, not some amorphous ideal, not to some plot of land, nor to any transient athority that claims to lead it.
    Last edited by oralpain; 06-06-2005 at 06:50 AM.

  11. #11
    LUSE Galant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Gibraltar
    Posts
    3,124
    Thanks
    448
    Thanked
    527 times in 320 posts
    But do you not then fail to see achievements on a societal level? What we see in nations is what has been achieved as a society and as a culture. Different countries and areas have different ideals, values and ways of life etc. Whilst not, perhaps, PC< I think it's possible and valid to make some comparisons and judgments on these, and be proud of accomplishments.
    No trees were harmed in the creation of this message. However, many electrons were displaced and terribly inconvenienced.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    1,041
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked
    8 times in 8 posts
    • oralpain's system
      • Motherboard:
      • DFI "Blood Iron" P35-T2RL
      • CPU:
      • Intel Pentium E2140 @ 400x8 (3.2GHz), 1.375v
      • Memory:
      • Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800 CL4 @ 500MHz (DDR 1000), 4-4-4-12-T2, 2.3v
      • Storage:
      • 2x Seagate ST3250410AS
      • Graphics card(s):
      • NVIDIA 8800GTS (G92) 512 @ 783MHz core, 1836MHz shader, 1053Mhz memory, stock cooling 70% fan speed
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic SS-500GB
      • Case:
      • Antec P182, with some small modifications
      • Monitor(s):
      • ASUS VW222U
      • Internet:
      • Time Warner "Road Runner" Cable - 16 megabit downstream, 1 megabit upstream
    I don't usually think of anything on a societal level. I'm not proud of, nor ashamed of, anything that I did not have a hand in personally.

    The only thing many Americans have in common with each other is that they all reside or were born with in the political borders of this country and that most speak dialects of the same language.

    I have vastly different ideals and values than many Americans. I have vastly different ideals and values compaired to many of my neighbors. Some people I live next to I have never even met.

  13. #13
    Senior Amoeba iranu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    On the dinner table. Blechh!
    Posts
    3,532
    Thanks
    111
    Thanked
    156 times in 106 posts
    • iranu's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Maximus Gene VI
      • CPU:
      • 4670K @4.3Ghz
      • Memory:
      • 8Gb Samsung Green
      • Storage:
      • 1x 256Gb Samsung 830 SSD 2x640gb HGST raid 0
      • Graphics card(s):
      • MSI R9 390
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX620W Modular
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master Silencio 352
      • Operating System:
      • Win 7 ultimate 64 bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • 23" DELL Ultrasharp U2312HM
      • Internet:
      • 16mb broadband
    Oralpain - May I ask you if you are proud of your country fighting the Nazis during the second world war and liberating Europe from an horiffic future? Of course you are.

    My point is this - no one United States citizen did this on their own. There were many people from across the US with the most diverse of backgrounds and the most diverse of views on many subjects (even naturalised Japanese). Yet, collectively, and I think that's the key word, they achieved something worthwhile.

    Now I know that there maybe considered a flip side to what is achieving something worthwhile, however, I would say that it is patriotic to be proud of and supportive of your (my) home country whether you (or I) have been involved in an achievement or not.

    Whilst we all have differing ideals and values from our neighbours, surely we have more in common. I'm thinking for example, the US constitution for you guys and perhaps Parliamentary democracy for us. (there are many others) Surely a country has values too.

    Otherwise we might as well pack our bags and become citizens of Iran or Papua New Guinea or say for you guys Canada and for me personally France, if it makes no difference.
    "Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.

  14. #14
    Looser Konan555's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    2,749
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked
    47 times in 44 posts
    Micheal More was accused of not being a patriot due to his 'anti-american' films.

    His answer was spot on. He loves his country, and is trying to improve it though voiceing his opinions on what's wrong with it.

    I appreciate this coutnry, I want to be a part of it. I don't for a moment turn that into shoving UK/England flags everywhere and thinking it's the best place in the world and everywhere else can't compare.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    1,041
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked
    8 times in 8 posts
    • oralpain's system
      • Motherboard:
      • DFI "Blood Iron" P35-T2RL
      • CPU:
      • Intel Pentium E2140 @ 400x8 (3.2GHz), 1.375v
      • Memory:
      • Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800 CL4 @ 500MHz (DDR 1000), 4-4-4-12-T2, 2.3v
      • Storage:
      • 2x Seagate ST3250410AS
      • Graphics card(s):
      • NVIDIA 8800GTS (G92) 512 @ 783MHz core, 1836MHz shader, 1053Mhz memory, stock cooling 70% fan speed
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic SS-500GB
      • Case:
      • Antec P182, with some small modifications
      • Monitor(s):
      • ASUS VW222U
      • Internet:
      • Time Warner "Road Runner" Cable - 16 megabit downstream, 1 megabit upstream
    Quote Originally Posted by iranu
    Oralpain - May I ask you if you are proud of your country fighting the Nazis during the second world war and liberating Europe from an horiffic future? Of course you are.
    You make too many assumptions.

    I wasn't there and I played no part what so ever in WWII, it was well before my time. Pride in this case seems wildly misplaced to me.

    Likewise I am not ashamed that "my" country put thousands of its citizens in prision camps in WWII for absurd reasons. I think it was about one of the greatest crimes possible, tanatamount to mass betrayal, but I'm not the one who perpetrated it.

    Even if I did feel some connection between the actions of "my" country and myself, I am not sure that any significant pride would be justifiable. Just as many wrongs have been comitted as prevented or solved. This goes for just about any nation. People just tend to ignore the bad and focus on the good, when refering to themselves or their group.

    Quote Originally Posted by iranu
    My point is this - no one United States citizen did this on their own. There were many people from across the US with the most diverse of backgrounds and the most diverse of views on many subjects (even naturalised Japanese). Yet, collectively, and I think that's the key word, they achieved something worthwhile.
    Yes, collectively is the word.

    Yes, they achived something worthwhile, but I am not part of they. Several of my family members were, but not me. People I know were, but not me. Their acts are their acts, not mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by iranu
    Now I know that there maybe considered a flip side to what is achieving something worthwhile, however, I would say that it is patriotic to be proud of and supportive of your (my) home country whether you (or I) have been involved in an achievement or not.

    Whilst we all have differing ideals and values from our neighbours, surely we have more in common. I'm thinking for example, the US constitution for you guys and perhaps Parliamentary democracy for us. (there are many others) Surely a country has values too.
    Yeah, being proud and supportive of your own country is nearly the definition of patriotic. I don't think this is always a good thing.

    I'm starting to feel that the US constitution (specifically the rights granted there in) has been irrevocably compromised. Everyone has their own interpretation of it. Some are so utterly different than my own that I cannot count the people who came up with them as anything but bitter enemies, as their interpretations, if enacted, would destroy what I value above all else. The constitution is as much a divisive factor as a uniting one.
    Quote Originally Posted by iranu
    Otherwise we might as well pack our bags and become citizens of Iran or Papua New Guinea or say for you guys Canada and for me personally France, if it makes no difference.
    If it makes no difference logic would dictate I do nothing, as that involves the least amount of effort.

    However, it would make a difference. Unfortunatly the US is one of the better places to be if you like the idea of personal freedoms. It's no where near what I would consider to be a "free" country, but it's pritty much as close as I can get. Bad is better than worse. Barely tolerable is better than utterly intolerable.

  16. #16
    I shall never tire... BEANFro Elite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    1,596
    Thanks
    122
    Thanked
    31 times in 19 posts
    • BEANFro Elite's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus MAXIMUS IV EXTREME Rev.3.0
      • CPU:
      • Intel Core i7 2600K Sandy Bridge
      • Memory:
      • Corsair Memory Vengeance 8GB DDR3
      • Storage:
      • 240Gb RevoDrive 3 X2, 1x 1TB Maxter DiamondMax 11
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire ATi HD5970 3GB
      • PSU:
      • Coolermaster Silent Pro Gold 1000W Modular
      • Case:
      • Coolermater Cosmos Pure Black
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 2209WA
      • Internet:
      • TalkTalk
    Quote Originally Posted by oralpain
    What constitutes a "positive" or "negative' attitude is totaly subjective.

    I am highly sceptical of patriotisim. So many people are willing to blindly uphold what may be a false idea/impression of what their country is. Two people from the same country, both proclaiming to be patriots, can have totaly different ideas of what their nation is, or should be.

    I prefer to avoid nationalisim. I give my respect, loyalty, and obedience to individuals whom I feel have earned them, not some amorphous ideal, not to some plot of land, nor to any transient athority that claims to lead it.
    What an excellent point, a soldier in Iraq is fighting for his country and against tyrinny and terror, whilst the insurgency are fighting for freedom of the oppressive western pigs.

    Patriotism IS in the eye of the beholder...

    Mouldable like clay, the term "Patriotism" can be made to mean alomost anything like "Protector of democracy" (the western nations) or "Alah's servant"...

    Hope you see where I'm going with this...

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. I hate radio one!
    By poindextermatic in forum Movies, TV, Music and Books
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 27-10-2009, 07:56 PM
  2. I hate Hesky
    By Bazzlad in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 14-06-2004, 12:08 PM
  3. I hate zidane.
    By yamangman in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 14-06-2004, 07:31 AM
  4. Any of you still running CRT's
    By TiG in forum Graphics Cards
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 18-01-2004, 07:02 PM
  5. I hate this heat...
    By bertie in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 04-08-2003, 06:20 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •