Do you believe in a thing called love?

Romantic Love 1100-2000?

‘Love is an invention of the twelfth century’ - Charles
Seignobos

In the ancient world, love was pretty much defined by the eros, philia and agape of the Greeks. Eros represented love of the body or sexual desire; philia, a mutual attachment of friendship and Agape, or spiritual love, a word now in common usage within the Christian religion. Romantic love that we see as a sentimental feeling only took on this meaning from the twelfth century poets in France called Troubadours. The new ideas had origins in the politics of the time, particularly the rise of womens convents throughout France where women sought refuge from Catholic marriage. Romantic love was just one of many ideas arising from a spiritual and moral revolution in European culture.

What is love in the modern world?

Freud would have us believe that love and sex are not clearly distinguished, not the cynical view that love is just an expression of clearer simpler drives, but that sex represents more that stimulation of a body part, it’s a more diverse, complex concept of ‘human sexuality’. This sexuality is heavily influenced by Victorian attitudes. Our sexual discourse is filled with opposites: Gay/Straight, Unsafe Sex/Safe Sex, Procreation/Recreation, Libertine/Pure, etc. In this context you can see the underlying ideas of repression and control. Freud’s view is that ‘At any given time an individuals loving and sexual styles and possibilities are determined by repressions and controls ultimately connected to the values of the outside society’.

So what values does society have?

I’ll offer some examples, from my acquaintances, since I practise moral abstinence.

‘A guy I know picked up a girl in a bar, boned her in the local park, before going to another bar and again boning her in the toilet’

‘Another is married, but can’t help but make comments about every girl he sees in the street. He’d love to cheat on his wife, but is afraid to lose his kid’

‘Another got married to escape a financial situation. She’s still happily married four years later, although she and her husband agree it’s mainly for convenience. They hope to have a child soon.’

This is my question: Are these examples representative of the ‘styles and possibilities’ people in the modern world hold, and if so, am I the only one who feels that the values of this society are morally lacking?

Im gonna post a long overdue post here now, (is Hexus' community dying or something? Anyway, a topic for somewhere else) and I can't believe noone else has posted on this topic thus far.

In responce to your question, the values of this society are not morally lacking, imo. In fact, the reason people behave in this way in which you find immoral, is because their morals are different from yours. I don't know if your a religious person (I'm certainly not), but if God gave us the power to think and make decisions, then we have to live with that.

Anyway, I feel you probably didn't mean exactly how you phrased your question, so I shall continue how I think I should :)

First of all, sex is great. Anyone whos done it knows it, and everyone who hasn't has been told how great it is by the people who have. Now, sex without love is still good, but its little more than masturbation [sp?] imo. Where sex with love is the best thing we, as humans, can experience. So, friend number one, who picks up some random girl, is just exercising the sexual drive that we all have. Friend number two obviously feels under some sort of sexual deprivacy, and possibly doesn't love his wife, but obviously loves his kid. Friend number three seems to have stumbled into a happy relationship, good for them!

For many people (mainly girls I find) having sex without love is immoral, but for most guys it appears that sex without love is fine. Probably to do with the girls havin the kid, and not the guy. Personally I'm kinda undecided on this. Altho I think some people probably regret going around on one nighters and getting laid all the time, as it makes it less special to have a loving sexual relationship. I'd imagine this has always been the case, as nothing really changes over time except technology. Humans don't learn from past mistakes, humans don't become morally superior, humans don't even get more intellegent over time. Everyone says how teenagers are so bad now, but the truth is, its always been that way.

I've got a girlfriend, and we are happy and are in a long term, now long distance, relationship. I still see girls in the street, around college, or whatever, and I find them attractive. Sometimes I even feel like I want to have sex with them, or whatever, but I don't because it would be wrong, and I'd lose the girl I love. She understands this completely, and I think she is in the exact same situation. Morally wrong is something that you actually do, not something you think of doing. Some people have fetishes to have sex with animals, which ain't gonna harm anyone if they just fantasise over it, but then its a bit illegal if they do it.

I appauld any couple in a happy relationship together. If they don't argue or are at each other's throats, then they are perfectly entitled to have kids, and will look after them properly etc. Just because your married means you can have kids. I know of parents who abuse their kids (from an early age, and even still now when they are 17-19). Its discusting, and thats far worse than being in a happy un-loving married relationship.

In effect, as long as the two people involved are (for want of a better phrase) both up for it, leave them be. Their lives their choice. As soon as it comes to the real big issues, like rape (I'd gladly seriously mame a rapist) or bringing a kid into the world who then just gets abused, then its not the same.

I dunno if I've answered what you were after, but I hope u enjoyed the read anyway :p

Quote:

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Originally posted by TeePee
‘A guy I know picked up a girl in a bar, boned her in the local park, before going to another bar and again boning her in the toilet’

‘Another is married, but can’t help but make comments about every girl he sees in the street. He’d love to cheat on his wife, but is afraid to lose his kid’

‘Another got married to escape a financial situation. She’s still happily married four years later, although she and her husband agree it’s mainly for convenience. They hope to have a child soon.’

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what about:
"i know this guy and girl, they cant take there eyes off each other, they want to marry and have kids"?

just because some people wud rather get there nob wet then have a relationship, dont mean love is dead

yeah i believe in love and although it didnt happen at first sight (tumble will say it did.....!) im glad to say that six months on, iam very much so now.

But to completely change this path on the subject, is there a time limit on when u fall in love? does anyone believe this??

A flatmate of mine believes that there is, shes been with her boyfriend for a little over 3 years now and had the cheek a couple of weeks ago to tell me that we couldnt possibly be in love as we hadnt been together long enough...... think i sat in my room for the rest of the night! i was that annoyed. But with him being my first serious relationship, i didnt feel i was able to tell her to f**ck off....

I dunno what do u lot think? personally we both believe she is talking out of her arse. sorry for ruining the thread guys!!

*just listen to the rhythm of my heart* ...ahem...
i do believe that love is real, but it cannot be instantaneous (sp?). i think you have to be with someone for a while, and learn about their personality, what you like about them, and also their faults. if after you've learnt and lived with this for a while and you still feel you love them, then that is true love IMHO.

Lynni, I was with Tumble just a few short hours, and I fell in love with him..... ;)

Quote:

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Originally posted by Deckard
Lynni, I was with Tumble just a few short hours, and I fell in love with him..... ;)

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oh god!! u again..... :p

he told me the same funny enough, had to tell him to shut it eventually :D

Deck - you said you wouldn't tell..... :(


on a more serious note tho - it does exsist, that love thing, and if it's real, you'll know about it pretty quick i reckon...

Sure, I believe in a thing called love - just listen to the rhythm of my heart! ;)

(Points to those who get it!)

Anyway.... Sometimes I feel that love is just a mechanism to ensure that we reproduce, when feeling less cynacle I think it's something more than that.