those london floods? for Christians only

[chuckskull]

In the voice of Comic Book Guy; "Worst thread revival ever"

[directhex]

you know, i think fuddam deserves credit for actually putting up with some of the constant tirades of abuse he's seeing

whatever your views on $DEITY, at if his faith lets him put up with this kind of **** at a stage where i'd have stuck the lot o' ye on ignore, then that deserves some acknowledgement

[TeePee]

We caused the famines, the wars and the crazy ass things that go on in this world. And if you blame god, well you believe in him and therefore believe in the statement above and then you now know that you can make a difference.

Of course if you don't believe in God, well that still just confirms that we caused the issues ourselves.

Merry Christmas to all

Man causes these problems. But man causes them in the name of religion. Be it christian, muslim or any other, almost all the wars, famines (man made that is) and crazy stuff is done in the name of religion. Christianity happens to be historically the worst, but mankind would be better off without any religion.

[theuncharmed]

I can see why people believe religion to be bad. Yes religion was/is the cause of many problems and many wars.

But ...

If you look at religion it says do not kill. Man and I'm talking about all the faiths listed has changed the meaning or teaching of their religion to suit their own benefits, and thus kill.

I mean there's a chap in Africa who get kids to kill their parents so that they can live. He drugs them up, rapes them and kills them as pleasure. He says he's a new Christian. Religion is not a totality.

I'm a Christian and I don't want to do any of those things.

I want to live a good life and I've found that the teaching through the bible has led me to be a 'good' person.

Of course the judgement of good for me, is by gods standards, others it could be the law, the country their family, friends etc

Just realised I've added a new tangent to this thread - doh!

[Stewart]

God does look on such problems and do something about them: he creates us. But we turn down the job.

Have you ever spoken to God, he to you, or anything like that?

[TeePee]

I would hope your interpretation is different from the guy in Africa, but he's still doing it in the name of religion.

There's no new tangent, we already discussed the roots of morality.

[Stewart]

There's no new tangent, we already discussed the roots of morality.

Have we? I thought we'd just typed abuse at the poor little Christian man?

If we forced a practising Christian to argue his way through Christmas, I'd feel bad.

[theuncharmed]

ah, that's where a major problem lies.

Most of the terrorists who we know (who have died or killed) are doing this for a religion.

If you read the papers, and the telegraph is excellent in pointing this out, is that many of the bombers have never been taught religion and have been seduced by an immortal life and benefits for their families and friends. So take a poor person, give them a reason, money and things they could never have and then thrust them to death for Allah/God/Jehovah etc.

You then have the string pullers who could be anyone, perhaps they are doing it for a religious purpose, but more often than not (in my opinion) a far worse evil is usually at play. Money.

But yes, my interpretation is very different from the African. In fact the African has never read the bible, he heard the term Christian, about Jesus (from a Muslim I read) and created a new Christian sect/faith. He like Rasputin, believes that by doing evil you get closer to God. Crazy !

[TeePee]

Have we? I thought we'd just typed abuse at the poor little Christian man?

My mistake, bring on the obscenities!

[fuddam]

Have you ever spoken to God, he to you, or anything like that?

well, let me put it this way: yes

for going on 27 years?: yes

and does he have a sense of humour?: yes

[fuddam]

I would hope your interpretation is different from the guy in Africa, but he's still doing it in the name of religion.

There's no new tangent, we already discussed the roots of morality.

again, you harp on about religion being the root of evil. How about waking up to the fact that BELIEF in anything (including science, atheism, agnosticism, democracy, communism etc) is the root of conflict

and why is this so?

because PEOPLE believe, and people are flawed.

for every abhorrent act you attribute to Christianity, I could spout (eg) a hundred others of a positive nature

(sigh)

[yamangman]

Holy heck, a Christian citing facts and figures. There's somthing deeply, fundamentally wrong with that. A person who could preclude all questions with innumerable fairy-tale answers.

[TeePee]

Science, atheism, democracy and communism are not beliefs.

Democracy and communism are systems of society.

Science is simply a search for answers, through evidence, logic and reasoning, and is conducted best when the scientist has no beliefs or pre-concieved ideas. This is a concept called objectivity, something of which you are unlikely to be aware.

Atheism is the absence of belief, which is why science and atheism go so well together.

Agnosticism I'll give you as a belief, allbeit a very different one from theistic religion.

The reason religion is so different from the others is that followers are simply unable to be reasonable. You are a perfect example. Over the many religion-related threads here you constantly ignore reasoned arguments, presenting none of your own. You make ridiculous statements that simply aren't true and then ignore the responses when caught out. With other kinds of conflict it's possible to reach a compromise. That's not to say everyone always does, only that there exists a middle ground. Religious people simply refuse to accept that they might be even slightly mistaken about any small detail, even if the evidence is held three inches from their nose.

[fuddam]

Science, atheism, democracy and communism are not beliefs.

yawn. do I really need to expain every little detail? ok.

Democracy and communism are systems of society.

ok, democracy is a system of society predicated on what? the belief that all men are equal, and that the best form of govt is "government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."

communism is a system of society predicated on a belief in "the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state", and that it is the best form of govt.

Science is simply a search for answers, through evidence, logic and reasoning, and is conducted best when the scientist has no beliefs or pre-concieved ideas. This is a concept called objectivity, something of which you are unlikely to be aware.

lol. lol. lol. you are so patronising as to make me laugh.

your position is EXACTLY predicated on a belief / faith that science holds all the answers, that there is no form of perception superior to it. You REFUSE (very scientific) to acknowledge anything that will shake your paradigm.

Furthermore, the statement: "when a scientist has no beliefs or pre-conceived ideas" illustrates a massive void in your understanding of language. To use any language is to use ideas / preconceptions / a particular slant on the world. You cannot avoid it. No-one can.

You cannot escape the language with which you construct the world.

There can be an attempt to strive for objectivity, but it remains unattainable.

Atheism is the absence of belief, which is why science and atheism go so well together.

atheism is the belief that there is no God. Totally unprovable, I might add.

The reason religion is so different from the others is that followers are simply unable to be reasonable. You are a perfect example. Over the many religion-related threads here you constantly ignore reasoned arguments, presenting none of your own. You make ridiculous statements that simply aren't true

aren't true? prove it. scientifically would be better, btw.

ALL the Christians I know are Christians precisely because they could not ignore the evidence. They know what they have seen / felt / experienced / witnessed etc.

You consider yourself a great intellect, Teepee. Pity. Your cup overfloweth, which leaves no room for anything else.

[iranu]

ALL the Christians I know are Christians precisely because they could not ignore the evidence. They know what they have seen / felt / experienced / witnessed etc.

So what is this 'evidence'?

What have they seen?

What have they felt?

What have they experienced?

What have they witnessed?

You must give us something tangible that we can grasp otherwise it's all just mumbo jumbo? Or are you saying that everyone has a eureka moment and then it's all ok?

People are very well known to be incredibly gullible and searching for meaning when interpreting things they have experienced/witnessed/seen/felt especially when they don't have the knowledge to explain something.

You only have to watch "Most Haunted" or see peoples statements about being abducted by aliens or seeing the Lochness Monster.

eg -

My friends and I were out in a back garden a few years ago when all three of us saw a light in the sky that behaved extremely oddly. I turned to the other two and said, did you see that? Yes they said and we then all agreed on exactly what we had seen. The size of the light, the brightness, what speed and direction it was travelling in. The change in direction/brightness and direction. Hell I even wrote it all down because it was the most amazing thing I have ever seen and I wanted a record of it.

Two weeks later (after checking records, space debri, launches, etc which turned up nothing) one of my friends swears blindly that we saw a rocket. I keep telling him that what he saw was an odd light in the sky that behaved strangely and nothing more. Even years after this event he still swears blind that what he saw was a rocket but when I ask him what colour the rocket was, he can't tell me - because he didn't see a rocket!

I know he didn't see a rocket and HE knows he didn't see a rocket but he can't stand to not know what it was. It frightens him....to the core. He just can't accept that he doesn't know what it was and like alot of people the unknown scares them. I've known him for 20 odd years and he's a mostly rational, knowledgeable, intelligent bloke, but he won't accept the truth. He has to make something up so it's tangible and digestible, something normal so he can deal with it...just like alot of people.

My friend has no more evidence for the rocket he saw than any religious person has for the god they believe in.

Religion is simply a way for the mind to deal with the big questions without feeling overwhelmed, insignificant and worthless and as a consequence scared.

[yamangman]

Are these these Christians you know the same 'many' Christians who attained doctorates and masters? Do none of them hold natural selection to be true? Or do they all have a doctorate in philosophy?

You have said many times that the human is flawed fuddam. I couldn't agree more with that. And your frquent rediculous reasoning leads me to believe that there are few more so than yourself. You have seen/felt/experienced and witnessed nothing that may prove the existence of the divine. Of course i'm sure you'll be able to reveal you've witnessed somthing utterly miraculous (which may or may not be true) and of course being a Christian with warped sensibilities the divine would preclude anything else that may logically cause such things.

Don't talk to us about patronising.