Printable View
Drugs are fun, but they are also dangerous. Some believe that drugs are totally wrong, but I disagree with them. I read somewhere recently a quote stating "If I have one pint with friends I am a social drinker. If I take one pill I am a drug addict with a problem."
Whaddya think?
Never touched em, never will. I consider the fact that you need them means you are a weak willed individual with an unforfilled life who needs escapism. I am pretty content with the way i am and dont feel the need for them, be it tabacco or weed or stronger.
That's the way i live anyway, hasnt done me wrong so far. I dont feel im missing out on any "life experience" in anyway, infact i feel quite the opposite - more happy about myself knowing i have the strength to refuse the peer pressure.
Heh, Bindi you need to relax your views, I don't do drugs and never have but i've been in a room where lots of people where smoking dope and i have to say watching stoned people is funny enough in itself.
It works for some people shouldn't critise something that you've never tried. The trouble i have with the current laws is Alcohol is a much more dangerous drug that cannabis and if we had discovered alcohol now it would probably be criminalised.
Yet I love drinking. If i think of that as an addiction, yet would you call me weakwilled too?.
TiG
I think im closer to Bindibadgis' opinion here, I think far too many people are reliant on drugs (INCLUDING alcohol.) Ive never touched drugs (but my brother more than makes up for that) and I drink far less than most people my age.
I would have to say that any form of addiction could be interpreted as said person being weak willed, but it takes a lot of mental strongness to overcome any addiction so maybe not.
Alcohol is enough to keep me happy, ensures everyone has a good time most of the time ;)
Drugs just aren't my thing, weed is boring and I don't feel the need to try pills. I also don't have friends that do them and wouldn't give in to any pressure if i did, rather i'd give them a big fat slap.
realistically, only happy well adjusted people with no hangups should take drugs, cos if u got any issues, drugs will usually magnify them beyond proportion
only problem is...happy, well adjusted individuals with no hangups generally have no need for drugs
my 2p - everything in moderation...including moderation
I really hope you guys are younger than me and have less life experience, I have no problem seeing your view, but i personally find it very difficult to say that the drugs are bad view has much credibility unless you are above 21/22
Don't ask me why its just the age that a whole lot of things make sense, its when i personally believe people mature to make these sort of decisions rationally.
I don't see what Happy well adjusted has to do with taking drugs, especially if you include alcohol in that view. People take drugs and drink for more reasons that to get away from things.
I like drinking because it gives me chance to throw off my inhibitions that keep me in check 99% of the time. But then sometimes i get stressed, having a drink is a good way for me to relax and remove the stress taking me back to happy and adjusted.
Feel free to disagree, i just want you to at least read my point...
Thanks
TiG
np tig, ur point taken - altho i'm certainly not saying drugs are bad cos for one thing that would make me a hypocrite. imho its all down to personal choice & self-control in knowing ur own limits & at least trying not to overstep them too often
i just speak from my own experience as someone who isn't happy & well adjusted & has a few hangups & have found that certain drugs (not initially, but eventually) have made some problems worse
I dont like drugs but if your going to do something like smoke weed you should at least choose to do so yourself instead of letting friends lead you into it
OK. Seems a couple of people dont understand this.
Alcohol is a drug too. IMHO it's one of the most dangerous, destructive and addictive drugs we know of.
Thoughts?
Alchohol is a horrible drug, and one that i love.It destroys your liver kidneys and brain and anything you smack off a wall while drunk.
It makes you feel invincible, there is no safe limit that can be applied to everyone that isn't 0 as it affects everyone differently.
It can be very addictive and is readily availdable to people under age (myself included)
Indeed.Quote:
Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
OK. Seems a couple of people dont understand this.
Alcohol is a drug too. IMHO it's one of the most dangerous, destructive and addictive drugs we know of.
Thoughts?
36 deaths in 2000 from Ecstasy while there were 1,595 alcohol-related deaths in Scotland alone in 1999.
Makes you think doesnt it ?
There are some shocking statistics in the UK:
http://www.ias.org.uk/factsheets/crime.htmQuote:
An All-Party Group of MPs investigating alcohol and crime was advised by the British Medical Association that alcohol is a factor in:
* 60-70% of homicides
* 75% of stabbings
* 70% of beatings
* 50% of fights and domestic assaults
The Police Superintendents advised that alcohol is present in half of all crime.
The National Association of Probation Officers advised that 30% of offenders on probation and 58% of prisoners have severe alcohol problems and that alcohol is a factor in their offence or pattern of offending.
Frightening, isn't it? And people argue against legalising cannabis :rolleyes:
I knew it would play a large factor but not the large, those figures are astonishing...
TiG
It's absurd, dont you think? It amazes me that people (normally Daily Mail and the like) bang on about drugs this and cannabis that. You only need to look at those figures to work out who the real culprit is...
Yes, but alchohol is readily available to the general public and has somehow managed to be accepted by society. Other drugs are still ostracised (sp?) by many and are considered to be more dangerous.
Don't you think thats a bad state of affairs then Kilrov?. DaBeeeenster has just give you the facts and proved drugs aren't as bad as alcohol. Surely if alcohol is legal and its worse than cannabis etc then we should legalise cannabis because it won't make any difference and the government can make some cash out of taxing the legal sale of it.
TiG
Or we could criminalise alcohol!Quote:
Originally posted by TiG
Don't you think thats a bad state of affairs then Kilrov?. DaBeeeenster has just give you the facts and proved drugs aren't as bad as alcohol. Surely if alcohol is legal and its worse than cannabis etc then we should legalise cannabis because it won't make any difference and the government can make some cash out of taxing the legal sale of it.
TiG
Then we could have mob-rule!!!!! Yey!
NOOOOOOOO don't do that, anyway if we crimilise alcohol what would we do with all the bars and clubs?, eek can you imagine no alcohol driven clubs. (HEHE)
omg i can't dance, and i know i can't dance hehe.
And maybe if we crimilise alcohol we should do chocolate as well to really incite mob rule :)
TiG
I haven't said that alcohol is worse than drugs. I've just said that alcohol is pretty bad whatever. I personally am of the opinion that it is one of the worst drugs (in terms of abuse and the people that abuse it) in our society at present, but I dont know statistics for other drugs would stack up against it.
I think if you were to take the statistis above on a per capita basis and placed them next to, say, crack or heroin then I think crack or heroin would probably rate worse (in terms of per capita abuse effects). I dont think many (or any) other drugs would.
I'm not sure what people think about this? Maybe someone can dig around for some stats on this?
I do think it is a bad state of affairs, I dont think alcohol should be criminalised but certainly something needs to be done, maybe heftier punishments for alcohol related crime and more alcohol free zones in urban areas. I also do not think that Cannabis should be legalised but then I dont agree with smoking anything.
What are your reasons against cannabis legalisation?
On the most basic level I do not agree with smoking anything due to its negative effects on health. Im specifically against the legalisation of cannabis for a few reasons. Firstly I think it is bad for you despite some people arguing otherwise:
"Wheezing, shortness of breath during exercise, and, most notably and early-morning coughing were up to two and a-half times more frequent in cannabis-dependent subjects compared to non-smokers."
"Mild changes in lung function occurred in 20% of non-smokers due to asthma, whereas the figure for cannabis-dependent subjects was 36%. That outcome was similar to tobacco smokers smoking more than 20 cigarettes a day."
Secondly I think that if it was legalised more people would take up tobacco smoking and that other drug usage would increase because young people would see cannabis as 'cool' just like they do with cigarettes and alcohol. Also, once people start taking cannabis some (NOT all) go onto further, harder drugs which are very dangerous.
Thirdly I think more people would be able to get away with certain crimes by claiming that they are undergoing treatment for addiction.
Finally, cannabis is getting stronger and will continue to do so (i think) so is actually getting more dangerous.
I think the point you are missing here Kilrov is that if it was legalised it would probably take the same route of cannabis cafe's - if this is the case you can ensure that people know the health risks, you can tax cannabis and you would still make it cheaper than it is now. The money you make from it can pay for the treatment of the people in later life when they can't breathe.
I personally hate the one thing will lead to another and everyone will go onto harder drugs and if cannabis was legalised at least you would know who has started smoking and it would be better to monitor those people to monitor who then goes onto use harder drugs.
The only reason i have any acceptance of cannabis is because unlike other drugs is it is at least natural and not chemically created.
Getting away with crimes has got bugger all to do with drugs imo, I wish our criminal system would forget about personal stuff - i believe that if someone breaks a law that there should be a sentence for it. (tho this should probably be another thread)
TiG
Two arguments to this.Quote:
Originally posted by Kilrov
On the most basic level I do not agree with smoking anything due to its negative effects on health. Im specifically against the legalisation of cannabis for a few reasons. Firstly I think it is bad for you despite some people arguing otherwise:
"Wheezing, shortness of breath during exercise, and, most notably and early-morning coughing were up to two and a-half times more frequent in cannabis-dependent subjects compared to non-smokers."
"Mild changes in lung function occurred in 20% of non-smokers due to asthma, whereas the figure for cannabis-dependent subjects was 36%. That outcome was similar to tobacco smokers smoking more than 20 cigarettes a day."
1. Cannabis does not need to be smoked.
2. Do you think the government should ban things based purely on their effects on health? Heart disease is the biggest killer in this country (49% of ALL europeans die of cardiovascular disease), but you dont see the government banning deep fried mars bars. And rightly so. Surely it's a personal choice for those above a certain age?
(link: http://www.annecollins.com/nutrition...sease%20Europe
Well, as I mentioned cannabis does not need to be smoked.Quote:
Originally posted by Kilrov
Secondly I think that if it was legalised more people would take up tobacco smoking and that other drug usage would increase because young people would see cannabis as 'cool' just like they do with cigarettes and alcohol. Also, once people start taking cannabis some (NOT all) go onto further, harder drugs which are very dangerous.
A couple of things about the "stepping stone" argument. (I hate this argument because it is hard to counter, but I do think it is wrong). Firstly, cannabis is not the gateway drug for young people, alcohol is. No question about that - more people start off their "drug" experiences with alcohol. The fact that it is legal is irrelevant. Secondly, cannabis is (generally) quite readily available throughout the UK. I agree that if it was legalised there would be a _slight_ increase in the amount of usage, but that would not go on for ever, and I think the pros definitely outway the cons here. Take a look at Holland. Dutch people are not constantly whacked out on crack or heroin are they? Yet they can legally purchase cannabis. Most dutch people I know hate cannabis in actual fact.
Well, this is a non-argument. There should be no excuses for commiting a crime under the influence of any drug. Driving or operating machinery whilst under the effects of drugs should always be illegal.Quote:
Originally posted by Kilrov
Thirdly I think more people would be able to get away with certain crimes by claiming that they are undergoing treatment for addiction.
How do you define dangerous? It is physically impossible to overdose on cannabis. "The easiest way to kill yourself with cannabis is to throw a brick of hash into the air and hope it lands on your head hard enough" - that's a quote from my friend who is a qualified doctor and surgeon.Quote:
Originally posted by Kilrov
Finally, cannabis is getting stronger and will continue to do so (i think) so is actually getting more dangerous.
Surely, if it was legalised, the strength and quality of it could be controlled by the government. If it was priced in such a way that it undercut dealers, the quality and strength would be immediately controllable. Dont forget that cannabis resin is often mixed with anything from dirt to plastic (that's right, plastic) to increase its weight.
These are mainly arguments in the defence of the negatives of cannabis. Maybe we can talk about some of the positives of legalisation?
What are people's thoughts on this?
Yes it does. But i dont feel that the two can be compared tho. Drinking is soically acceptable wheras using class a drugs is definately not.Quote:
Originally posted by Agent
Indeed.
36 deaths in 2000 from Ecstasy while there were 1,595 alcohol-related deaths in Scotland alone in 1999.
Makes you think doesnt it ?
Legalise cannabis in the way the Dutch have and tax it, that's my view. It would save a lot on policing if young men were stoned and chilled out on Friday/Saturday night rather than drunk and aggressive. I don't buy the "but alcohol's legal" argument for legalisation though - two wrongs etc.
And that depends on who you socialise with.Quote:
Originally posted by steve threlfall
Yes it does. But i dont feel that the two can be compared tho. Drinking is soically acceptable wheras using class a drugs is definately not.
true ,but the majority tend to side against drugs as they weren't shall i say "bought up with them" and of course, the horror stories in the sun are always right............... :rolleyes:
What does the social status of a drug have to do with it's health danger?Quote:
Originally posted by steve threlfall
Yes it does. But i dont feel that the two can be compared tho. Drinking is soically acceptable wheras using class a drugs is definately not.
I think (correct me if i'm wrong in the morning steve) he means that its difficult for the general tabloid reading paper to compare the drug the drink while reading said paper. and the drug thats a "plague on our children" or whatever drivel the print about it now.
That's fair enough, but that's part of my point; the law should be based on objectivity, not tabloid trash.
TO paraphrase DaBeeenster's (and one of my) favorite comedian - Alcahol is a taxable drug thats why its seen as a "good" drug. Those other ones ( the ones the Gov. cant make cash from) are bad for ya :)
well said (or quoted!) moby
my 2p - educate ppl properly.
the one thing no "anti-drugs" campaign has ever said is that drugs acutally do make u feel fantastic...when ur an impressionable kid u get "just say no" thrown at u from every angle & if u dare to ask why u just get "cos they're bad & will screw u up" & u feel like u just discovered another planet when u take drugs & they actually make u feel great.....that don't mean they won't f***k u up eventually but it makes u question the whole ethos of the anti-drugs campaigns, the 1st thing u think being "have these 'just say no' ppl ever actually tried this stuff!!"
I know people have been complaining about posts like this one I will have to do it :
^^^ LOL @ PETREFAX ^^^
Well said mate, well said!