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Thread: Would you buy GM potatoes?

  1. #17
    Treasure Hunter extraordinaire herulach's Avatar
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    Nobodies saying it is, in this particular cas cross polleniation isnt an issue either as i dont think weeds resistant to potato blight would be that big a deal.

    TBH most crops are nearly as bad, poppies in particular are terrible for getting everywhere, as is rape. but neither are as bad as naturally occuring weeds (you every tried to get rid of that vineweed stuff? its like a bloody triffid. mushrooms too are terrible)

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    Quote Originally Posted by herulach
    but neither are as bad as naturally occuring weeds (you every tried to get rid of that vineweed stuff? its like a bloody triffid. mushrooms too are terrible)
    Seems as if I'm the only anti GM person here but here I go again... The cross pollination issue is very serious because as you point out above weeds (any plant in fact) will grow anywhere at an alarming rate. If you can't kill the weeds then crops will be destroyed or rendered useless as they will be full of unedible plants.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluecube
    GM is the manipulation of DNA at the molecular level, a process which no one really knows too much about outside the laboratory and is certainly not ready to be released into the wild no matter how much the biochemical companies insist that this is the case.
    evolutions/selective breeding is still manipulation of dna when push comes to shove.

    i dont see anything wrong with GM eventually, all for it infact, but genetics isnt understood well enough at the moment for it to be viable
    Pirates = Win.

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    Senior Member charleski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluecube
    Seems as if I'm the only anti GM person here
    Not really.

    I think it's silly to reject genetic modification out of hand. It's a technique with enormous power that promises results which would be too hard, dangerous or simply impossible to produce by other means. But that very power means it must be used in a very judicious manner, and I don't think the current crop of GM companies are anything like the right entities to be doing this.

    Cross-pollination is a quick and obvious method of gentic dispersal, but there are others. A retrovirus jumps a stop codon and incorporates a new gene into its RNA, which then gets cut out into a plasmid and jumps ship across a range of bacteria. This is unlikely, very unlikely, but all you need is time and numbers, that's how Nature works. I think we need more time and a lot more large-scale controlled experiments to work out what we're actually doing here.

    That's why I have sympathy for those opposing large-scale commercial GM crops, but nothing but contempt for the self-regarding 'activists' who go around tearing up controlled experimental farms.

    Finally, I have major doubts as to the commercial manner in which gentic engineering is being performed. I just don't think these companies are competent to perform this function, and I think their actions in the third-world are a clear indication of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by charleski
    Not really.

    I think it's silly to reject genetic modification out of hand. It's a technique with enormous power that promises results which would be too hard, dangerous or simply impossible to produce by other means. But that very power means it must be used in a very judicious manner, and I don't think the current crop of GM companies are anything like the right entities to be doing this.

    Cross-pollination is a quick and obvious method of gentic dispersal, but there are others. A retrovirus jumps a stop codon and incorporates a new gene into its RNA, which then gets cut out into a plasmid and jumps ship across a range of bacteria. This is unlikely, very unlikely, but all you need is time and numbers, that's how Nature works. I think we need more time and a lot more large-scale controlled experiments to work out what we're actually doing here.

    That's why I have sympathy for those opposing large-scale commercial GM crops, but nothing but contempt for the self-regarding 'activists' who go around tearing up controlled experimental farms.

    Finally, I have major doubts as to the commercial manner in which gentic engineering is being performed. I just don't think these companies are competent to perform this function, and I think their actions in the third-world are a clear indication of this.
    My thoughts exactly. I just got sidetracked
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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Potatoes can't cross pollinate

    Also this isn't putting a rat gene in, it's taking a property from another potato variety and putting it in ours. You could argue we'd do the same by selective breeding if we could, but it's too hard so you have to use GM.

    Selective breeding is anything but natural though. Though
    Quote Originally Posted by charleski
    A retrovirus jumps a stop codon and incorporates a new gene into its RNA, which then gets cut out into a plasmid and jumps ship across a range of bacteria. This is unlikely, very unlikely, but all you need is time and numbers, that's how Nature works.
    Exactly.. so what are we doing when we do GM.. exactly the above. It happens in nature just as much as selective breeding does..
    Last edited by kalniel; 24-08-2006 at 10:43 AM.

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    Back to question--------------- NO GM PRODUCTS FOR ME.
    Deo Adjuvante non Timendum

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    Quote Originally Posted by vicar
    Back to question--------------- NO GM PRODUCTS FOR ME.
    What's your reason? Mine is that I don't fancy my chances with untested products that are environmentally unfriendly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluecube
    Cause Ma Nature doesn't insert rat genes into plant genes cause it makes for a supposedly better plant. Neither does Ma Nature sell farmers GM crops that don't produce seed so farmers have to buy seed from the biocorps every year.
    Where do farmers get their non GM seed from? I dont think thats an argument for why natural seeds are better than man made.
    And BTW why is something artificially produced inherently better than the natural equivalent?
    Care to point out where I or anyone else said that?
    That said, I would say man made houses are generally better than naturally occuring ones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by badass
    Why is something that is natural inherently better?
    There you go.

    And you can't compare houses with plants and animals! Totally different argument.
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    WEEEEEEEEEEEEE! MadduckUK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluecube
    What's your reason? Mine is that I don't fancy my chances with untested products that are environmentally unfriendly.
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    Senior Member charleski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel
    so what are we doing when we do GM.. exactly the above. It happens in nature just as much as selective breeding does..
    What we are doing with GM is concentrating our anti-microbial armamentarium in a place where it might be transferred to undesirable species. That doesn't happen in Nature and it's something we need to be wary of.

  13. #29
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charleski
    What we are doing with GM is concentrating our anti-microbial armamentarium in a place where it might be transferred to undesirable species. That doesn't happen in Nature and it's something we need to be wary of.
    Not in this case we're not.


    Remember this is something that is natural. It's taking something from one potato variety that helps it fight off blight, and is putting it in another potato variety. No herbicide resistance genes or whatever.

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    herbicides are only ever added as part of the transfection process

    i.e you add the blight resistance gene which has a herbicide resistance gene alongside it, then spray the crop with herbicide to kill off all the non-transformants, otherwise you have no way of knowing which plants have the gene and which dont

    there are other ways to do that now though, and they probably would avoid that kind of thing given the amount of pressure in this country

    the problem is in the end it all comes down to us having to predict the risks and counteract, we have no way of knowing what exactly will happen

    back in the day it was predicted that there was no way the genes would escape, thus it would be perfectly safe to do this kind of thing, then they found their genetic material inside bumble bee intestinal bacteria and since then theyve found plenty of mechanisms for horizontal gene transfer

    the whole science is dependent on (natural) DNA uptake by bacteria like E. coli (for propagation and selection) which is a lesson that horizontal gene transfer emerged in nature long before we came along, and using those very same mechanisms we decide to grow tonnes and tonnes of gm product out in the wild and expect to predict and protect from all the risks of contamination

    however, at the moment we have plenty of food for everyone in the world so its easy to say its all about the money... the problem is that we are on a steep upward population climb that our farming capacity wont meet in a few decades time, so there is a need to take action now
    Last edited by -ChEM-; 25-08-2006 at 01:56 PM.

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    Senior Amoeba iranu's Avatar
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    Since when have General Motors been making potatos?

    Bah, balls to it - I'll happily eat GM foods. Those who don't are the same people who won't eat beef cos I might get BSE and nanotechnology is bad man cos we'll all be consumed by the gloop when it gets out of control.

    Man has been changing his food since the day he learned to farm. Breeding and cross pollination has not turned things like tomatos in to 6 headed baby eating monsters ala the triffids.

    GM food in 50-100 years time will be seen as a great advance in the ability to produce enough food for the world without the need for expensive, evironmentally damaging fertiliser/chemicals.

    If nature allowed such easy gene swapping then we'd have pigs that grow wool (now that would be handy).
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    Quote Originally Posted by iranu
    Those who don't are the same people who won't eat beef cos I might get BSE....

    If nature allowed such easy gene swapping then we'd have pigs that grow wool (now that would be handy).
    Just a few points to answer the above -

    That's complete cr*p. I've eaten beef even due the BSE scare (which another load of complete cr*p as well. People who don't eat GM food are those that are concerned about the junk that large corporations are practically forcing down our throat with no choice on our part.

    And nature doesn't allow easy gene swapping hence the whole problem of scientists doing it in the first place!
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