Flag-burning could become a crime

[Taz]

The burning of flags and covering your face during demonstrations could become a crime. And not before time.

Story here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6095260.stm

This is great news. It is wholly wrong to burn the flag of any country as a mark of protest. Covering your face also indicates that that you are not prepared to 'stand up and be counted' on your protest. Furthermore, it is also an indication that malice is intended.

Now, the interesting thing is that these recommendations have been put forward by Britain's most senior muslim police chief, Assistant Commissioner Tarique Ghaffur.

I'm very happy to read about this story as this guy represents mainstream Muslim opinion far more than any of the nutcase clerics that are wheeled out in front of the news media from time to time.

Well done to Tarique Ghaffur for saying it like it is.

[G4Z]

Humm, not sure I agree.

With todays surveilence society I can see an argument for covering your face at a protest. if you have a good job, say you even work for the government you might not want it known that you attended a protest. I have read that the government does maintain records on that kind of thing even if they don't now you have facial recognition technology nearly ready and I am sure a lot of data will be collected in that way.

Flag burning, well thats purely symbolic, and I really do not care if somebody burns a union jack or any other flag to be quite honest thats up to them. I really see no need to legislate for it.

Thing is with this kind of legislation is that combined with all of the other legislation happening (ID cards, no protests withina mile of parliment etc) is that it seems to be heading in a really dodgy direction, if things start to get worse I can see I might end up attending a few protests myself.

[Rave]

Yeah, they can shove it. I've never burned a flag, but I'll certainly be torching a Union Flag if they make it illegal.

[TheAnimus]

damn hippies, LEARN THE RULES!

as said, facial recogonition technology, no way i'd ever protest about something that i don't want EVERYONE to know i belive in.

That said its hardly worse than GCHQ.

[Nick]

Ah so Rave, you want to alienate ALL UK residents?

What have the Welsh of the Scots ever done to you?

Surely, if we're going to nail our colours to the cross with which flag we torch, we should make it quite clear who it is we're attacking?

And to be honest, rather than make it illegal, just make it illegal if the burners haven't carried out a proper risk assessment first... we don;t need new legislation, we already have enough red tape to stop it.

eg. Bloke from EHO taps masked protestor on shoulder:

"Excuse me sir, beofre you put your lighter to that flag, can I see a copy of your risk assessment for the burning of national emblems in public places?"

Job sorted... and it'd give gainful employment to those pen-pushing vampires that are soaking up vast amounts of NHS cash with their pointless exercises in management consultancy...

[autopilot]

The problem with burning a flag i that it's not specific, i.e. if someone has a beef with the British government then burning a union jack is like protesting against me too. But hey, it agree with the people who are protesting against the British governments invasion of Iraq. So burn a effigy of Blair and his mob, but please don't burn my flag when i actually agree with most of your sentiment.

Burning a flag is amazingly ignorant and it may even turn people who might have been on your side against you. I might even incite further racial violence against of innocent people because they come from the country who's flag is being burnt. But i doubt making it illegal will stop people doing it, it could even exasperate the issue. But it's just not that black and white (no pun intended), every situation needs to be looked at in context. It's just a piece of material at the end of the day and if burning a flag was illegal, could some people think that if that illegal too, why not just be done with it a burn a building or something? If a British Muslim is stupid enough to burn their own flag, then they will be exposed for the morons they are. But if a group of Muslims are protesting about something peacefully and a small number of people start burning the flag which is not what the majority of protester want and is likely to cause a kick off, then yes the police need the powers to stop them.

Rave; I hope you were joking mate. I find flag burning deeply offensive, i would never want to take your freedom away to do it but i hope you would have the sense not to.

As for covering your face at a protest, i'ts not only completely hypocritical and cowardly, but it can ruin otherwise peaceful protests. If you care enough to protest, why don't you want to stand up and be counted? This is the UK, the police and government often handle protests very badly - but Iran this aint. When i was at uni there were a few student protests. A few got ugly and the people causing trouble and ruining the protest (most of whom were not students) had their faces covered. The trouble makers were almost always the people with hoods up and scarf's over their face. If the police could pull those creeps out for wearing a scarf etc then a lot could be avoided. And if people still caused trouble and did not hide their identity, they could be, possibly, stopped from attending other protests.

I hate the government telling us what to do and not what to do a next as much as the next person. But British society is going increasing down the toilet. But to hell with it, if helps then I'm all of for a bit of 'nanny state' sometimes. Some morons clearly need a bit of nannying.

[Rave]

Ah so Rave, you want to alienate ALL UK residents?

What have the Welsh of the Scots ever done to you?

Well, they're responsible for ensuring that the Labour government got a majority, for a start....

Rave; I hope you were joking mate. I find flag burning deeply offensive, i would never want to take your freedom away to do it but i hope you would have the sense not to.

I agree that flag burning is offensive, but in a free society people should have the right to say and/or do things which deeply offend us. I am not joking BTW, I really will make a point of burning the Union Flag if they decide to make it illegal- because I believe it is my duty as a patriotic citizen to break laws that serve little purpose than to infringe the liberties of the populace. I suppose I could try and find a New Labour flag to burn instead.

[autopilot]

Some people like to be controversial for the sake of it, just to make themselves feel clever, eh.

And no offensive, but if you burnt a union jack in front of me, i would punch you. And therein lie another quandary... if someone tried to pass a law to stop you doing it, i would want to punch them.

Ahhh, it's all too much for me this afternoon. I'm off back too Company Of Heros...

[hitman67]

I suppose I could try and find a New Labour flag to burn instead.

Just burn Tony Bliar - do us all a favour. Or why not EAT a flag, now that'd be a good protest

[G4Z]

I do not understand why people would be so offended by the buring of a union jack.

Quite frankly I do not belive in nationalism/patriotism and I certainly wouldnt risk a fight over somebody burning a flag. Why would you? What is it that offends you about a flag being burnt?

Somebody burns the union back and ok they hate the UK, but thats fine by me. People can hate the UK if they want, so long as they dont impinge on anybody elses saftey in any way they can burn as many flags as they want as well.

[chuckskull]

And no offensive, but if you burnt a union jack in front of me, i would punch you. And therein lie another quandary... if someone tried to pass a law to stop you doing it, i would want to punch them.

I completely agree on that one(was what I was about to post tbh). It's about the freedom to do and the freedom to take offense.

Fire and large numbers of people mixes really badly though.

The mask rule I agree on, theres no reason to wear one, unless you want to do something other than protest. I don't care if you have a good job or work for the government if you care enough to protest then this shouldn't stop you. If you really are that passionate about something then you should stand up and be counted.

[JPreston]

...I believe it is my duty as a patriotic citizen to break laws that serve little purpose than to infringe the liberties of the populace...

quite a specific liberty being infringed though, isn't it? Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!

Out of interest does anyone know whether it is illegal to deface an image of the queen?

[autopilot]

Quite frankly I do not belive in nationalism/patriotism

I agree with what you are saying, but don't confuse the two. Nationalism is dangerous, but there is nothing wrong with patriotism.

If more people were truly patriotic, then maybe more people would be inclined to stand up against what our government is doing to countries like Irag in the name of our country. Then possibly none of this flag burning would be happening in the first place.

[MadduckUK]

Out of interest does anyone know whether it is illegal to deface an image of the queen?

[autopilot]

Well, they're responsible for ensuring that the Labour government got a majority, for a start....

Even the ones that voted Tory/Lib Dem/Etc?

[G4Z]

Look, call my cynical but it seems to me that there is far to much new legislation about protests, I cannot think of any recently that got so out of hand because of flag burning anyway and if people do cause trouble then what is so wrong with the existing laws that we already have? Why do we need one for flag burning or wearing a mask/hoodie/balaclava?

I worry that this is just another addition to the armoury for the government to use when clamping down on legitimate demonstrations and protests.