City Bonus - Why does the UK media hate it?

[JPreston]

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You cant say that when someone who works in the city has told you that is not the case without at least providing some evidence to support that.

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I can indeed say that when they are talking total guff:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6193248.stm (Goldman Sachs)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4290103.stm (Morgan Stanley)
http://www.nosweat.org.uk/node/155 (RBS)

And what do I do, work on a farm or something?

[Mike Fishcake]

There's a hell of a lot of sickeningly narrow-minded opinions on here, people from various backgrounds assuming things about other people from different backgrounds.

There is a need for EVERY type of job in the world (to a certain extent). Just because City bankers are important, doesn't mean that care workers etc are less important, they're just important in a different way.

I do dispute the argument that care workers have very little responsibility. They have a HELL of a lot of responsibility, but a lot of people don't understand / can't be bothered to find out exactly what care jobs involve.

My wife is a nursery nurse. The amount of targets they have to acheive, the things they have to write down and reference, the amount of things they have to monitor and observe is a lot more than most of the clients think. A lot of people just think it's a case of they drop their kids off, and the nursery nurses just play with them and change a couple of nappies. Nooooooo way. A lot of hard work, yes, but it's what she wants to do.

Don't get me wrong, she doesn't claim that she should be getting paid as much as an investment banker, but each person that contributes something, anything, no matter how small to society is necessary. They may only just be one piece in the jigsaw, but just because they don't appear to directly influence the outcome of industry doesn't mean they're not important.

For example - no nursery nurses means a lot of people would have to stay at home rather than work and earn shedloads of money. No cleaners would mean that workplaces would become dirty. No ambulance workers would mean that when a businessman overdoses after sniffing cocaine from a silver tray balanced on a dwarf's head, there would be no-one to whisk him quickly to hospital. It might sound like a simple argument but that's because it should be obvious really. Just because someone doesn't think that a particular job is what they want to do, doesn't mean that someone that wants to do that job is wrong (and that goes for all sides of the argument) .

Of course someone that works hard in the pension investments business and so on should get paid more than me - they work longer hours and I want to make sure I get a decent pension when I retire, but don't you DARE tell me that the people that do the lesser paid jobs are stupid or unimportant, they provide a service that needs to be provided, but just in a different area to the area you work in.

There is not a single person in the world that is the be-all and end-all of society, and the sooner everyone gets their head out of their behinds and realises that, the sooner we can get on with our lives without delusions that what they do is the most important thing in the world.

No matter what you may think - in the grand scheme of things, not a single person on here is any more or less insignificant than anyone else that goes into a job and works hard, week in, week out, and don't you try and convince yourself otherwise.

[badass]

And what do I do, work on a farm or something?

I suppose I'm supposed to be telepathic.

[badass]

No matter what you may think - in the grand scheme of things, not a single person on here is any more or less insignificant than anyone else that goes into a job and works hard, week in, week out, and don't you try and convince yourself otherwise.

Disagree. An extreme example, but to prove the point, what happens is a doley smack head dies? What significant would happen?
What happened when Robert Maxwell died? I'd say thats pretty significant.
I think that illustrates the point.
However I would agree that no person in this world is in a position to look down on someone else that works hard and earns an honest living

[revol68]

I think the skewered response on this board is a reflection of it's users, mainly middle class/single men with very little responsibility, educated to university level and brought up with an ingrained sense that they are better or more deserving than those awful uncoth thicko poor who serve them their dinners in school, clean their offices, care for their grandmothers, drive their buses, clean their streets and a thousand other roles that these people barely consider must happen for them to go about their lives.

The fact that people think City workers are more important than care workers says it all.

[Moby-Dick]

before this thread goes any further I woud like to take this opportunity to remind people that Personal Attacks are not really done on HEXUS. Before you post, think this, "Would I say this out loud in a public place?" If the answer is no , then I urge you not to say it - its common sense really, so we'll leave it at that.

[revol68]

my post wasn't meant as a personal attack on anyone, and yes i would say that in a public place.

my experiance of passing my 11+ and going to a snobbish grammar school gave me a rather shocking insight into the barely concealed snobbery of middle class folks, their almost ingrained sense of superiority masked behind "respectability". Even friends of mine have came out with some shocking statements, not through meanness but because they are just brought up with certain assumptions that the only reason people aren't as well off, comfortable or educated as them is because they are lazy, unmotivated or stupid. They tend to take their experiances as some sort of universal norm and hence everyone else has just got themselves to blame, afterall if they can do alright for themselves blah blah.

[badass]

I think the skewered response on this board is a reflection of it's users, mainly middle class/single men with very little responsibility, educated to university level and brought up with an ingrained sense that they are better or more deserving than those awful uncoth thicko poor who serve them their dinners in school, clean their offices, care for their grandmothers, drive their buses, clean their streets and a thousand other roles that these people barely consider must happen for them to go about their lives.

The fact that people think City workers are more important than care workers says it all.

Ahh provocation and personal attacks. The last resort of someone that knows they have lost an argument yet refuse to accept it.

[revol68]

Ahh provocation and personal attacks. The last resort of someone that knows they have lost an argument yet refuse to accept it.

It's hardly much in the way of personal attacks. I mean this thread is littered with posts that do nothing but back up my points. How many quotes do you want of people saying nonsense about lazy people, how hardworking city workers are, how other people could do it if they were as motivated and intelligent.

Secondly we all know that the demagraphic on tech forums is skewered towards the better off, people with little responsibilities, no kids, high disposable income, third level education.

[badass]

It's hardly much in the way of personal attacks. I mean this thread is littered with posts that do nothing but back up my points. How many quotes do you want of people saying nonsense about lazy people, how hardworking city workers are, how other people could do it if they were as motivated and intelligent.

Secondly we all know that the demagraphic on tech forums is skewered towards the better off, people with little responsibilities, no kids, high disposable income, third level education.

OK care to explain how you got into a grammar school yet never got the opportunities everyone else here has got?
I went to a comprehensive, and I suspect that most posters here did aswell.

[Moby-Dick]

Which is why my reminder was not directed at anyone in particular - Inverted snobbery is just as bad.

Sadly we dont live in a truely meritocratic society and some people will always have more money than others. The divide is only highlighted by the bonus boys , its always been there.

I personally think that ambition makes a large difference - people with more ambition / drive will push themselve harder to better themselves , be it financially or otherwise ( Sucess & Financial sucess often go hand in hand )

[GeorgeTuk]

Money comes to money. Its an old adage that never stops working.

These guys earn money because they make their company lots of money itself. Its nothing to do with a job on merit. I also think this talk of the bubble bursting is a bit off, it seems whenever something is happening in the internet the bubble is about to burst (off the top of my head: YouTube, Microsoft, Sony and housing), has no-one ever heard slowdown.

[revol68]

OK care to explain how you got into a grammar school yet never got the opportunities everyone else here has got?
I went to a comprehensive, and I suspect that most posters here did aswell.

Well I'm in Northern Ireland, we don't have comphensives, we do a test at 11 and that means you either go to a Secondary or a Grammar. I passed it. As a test it is heavily biased towards the middle class who have the time, money and resources for tutition, not to mention that middle class kids generally take it as granted that the education system will serve them.

In away the 11+ offers more oppurtunities to working class kids in that it's not based on PostCode selection and the multitude of ways that better off families ensure their kids go to the best schools. It allows a small minority of working class kids social mobility but really takes it's toll on the rest. It's the major factor in why Northern Ireland has the best GSCE and A level results in the UK but at the same time has the worst.

Furthermore I did get the oppurtunities to do what aload of my other mates did and go into engineering, accounting, banking or whatever and make a load of money. I didn't however want to, I was more interested in learning for learnings sake, I rarely followed the books in school and read outside. I was always in trouble for disobediance and not having enough respect for authority and school protocol (this was a very snobbish provincial grammar with dillusions of grandeur, dripping in middle class hypocrisy) but my grades always kept me hanging in.

So I suppouse I could have knuckled down, tipped my cap and played along, and got a job in the city or something similar. I didn't however want to, I would rather put my penis in a blender than spend my week surrounded by city boys. My point is that you can get along and make it, but only if you play by certain rules, only if your desires, hopes and principles (or lack of) fit. I don't see why I should, especially when the rules of the game are inherently loaded against the vast majority of the worlds population and when it is us that have built and maintained the foundations on which your game sits. When we clean the offices, work in the banks, call centres, hospitals, schools, buses, trains, when the computers that are used by city slickers to move billions around in the blink of an eye are manufactured by chinese women working 14 hour shifts.

[badass]

Well I'm in Northern Ireland, we don't have comphensives, we do a test at 11 and that means you either go to a Secondary or a Grammar. I passed it. As a test it is heavily biased towards the middle class who have the time, money and resources for tutition, not to mention that middle class kids generally take it as granted that the education system will serve them.

In away the 11+ offers more oppurtunities to working class kids in that it's not based on PostCode selection and the multitude of ways that better off families ensure their kids go to the best schools. It allows a small minority of working class kids social mobility but really takes it's toll on the rest. It's the major factor in why Northern Ireland has the best GSCE and A level results in the UK but at the same time has the worst.

Furthermore I did get the oppurtunities to do what aload of my other mates did and go into engineering, accounting, banking or whatever and make a load of money. I didn't however want to, I was more interested in learning for learnings sake, I rarely followed the books in school and read outside. I was always in trouble for disobediance and not having enough respect for authority and school protocol (this was a very snobbish provincial grammar with dillusions of grandeur, dripping in middle class hypocrisy) but my grades always kept me hanging in.

So I suppouse I could have knuckled down, tipped my cap and played along, and got a job in the city or something similar. I didn't however want to, I would rather put my penis in a blender than spend my week surrounded by city boys. My point is that you can get along and make it, but only if you play by certain rules, only if your desires, hopes and principles (or lack of) fit. I don't see why I should, especially when the rules of the game are inherently loaded against the vast majority of the worlds population and when it is us that have built and maintained the foundations on which your game sits. When we clean the offices, work in the banks, call centres, hospitals, schools, buses, trains, when the computers that are used by city slickers to move billions around in the blink of an eye are manufactured by chinese women working 14 hour shifts.

So in short you got the same opportunities these middle class people you clearly despise have had, and decided not to toe the line.
Well everyone has to do things they dont enjoy doing to get where they want to, apart from you it seems. Or do you actually believe that everyone loves working long hours, studying boring material, putting up with bullying bosses and generally being exploited as far as the company they work for can get away with
I suppose you think we like being woken at 2am because a director in America wants internet access and the IT staff over there have thrown all of your carefull planning and preperation to sh1t by ignoring your instructions.

Reality check time: in order to make decent money in this world you cant just do what you want to do
Now get off your high horse having a go at everyone here that got off their arses and did something with their lives because you were too busy getting in "trouble for disobediance and not having enough respect for authority and school protocol" to have "knuckled down, tipped my cap and played along"
If you want to go "learning for learnings sake" then by all means do so but dont moan when people get paid more than you for the same hours because that actually applied their learning and are prepared to put up with more cr@p.

[Rack]

Errr dont mean to burst your bubble, but you're probably in the top 1%
The vast majority of the people in this country are.
Would you happily give away 3/4 of your wages to redistribute the wealth fairly?

If it means that everyone has an equal opportunity in regards to schooling, public services, and that no matter what your children choose to do to fulfill their life they won't have to be focused on making money? That's Everyone's kids, not just the rich-kids. That sounds like the human race moving forward to a better more intelligent and educated society rather than a 2-layer rich/poor one.

That sounds fantastic. That's how I found it to be in Denmark - no-one is stinking rich, but everyone's kids have very similar opportunities thanks to a free and unbiased system of health, schooling, social services, etc.

BTW I don't know where you get 75% - definitely not necessary. However even in England I'm sure that 2% have 50% of the wealth, of which I'm not involved I'm sure of that.

[fishboy25uk]

I'll admit I've not read all of this post, but the hypocracy is unbelieveable. I challenge anyone here to justify their salary when there are millions of children dying every day in Africa and other places. Whether you'll earn £13,000 or £130,000 this year, everyone here is still 'overpaid' when you consider the global community and the poverty within it.

Whether you go home tonight to your 1 bedroom flat or your 12 bedroom mansion, you'll have a roof over your head and food in your fridge, which is a lot more than can be said for some people.

I'm just as hypocritical as everyone else, but you'll not catch me whining that I deserve more money. I don't, and wager you don't either - whatever you do.