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Thread: The Catholic Gay Adoption Agency

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    Senior Member JPreston's Avatar
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    The Catholic Gay Adoption Agency

    Wondering what people's views are on this issue?

    My (groundless, knee-jerk) opinion is that all things being equal, it would be preferable for children to have a heterosexaul couple as adoptive parents. But, I recognise that all things are never equal - I believe it's a fact that gay men are on average more affluent and educated than heterosexual men, two factors which are beneficial to children's welfare. The churches are basically saying that no gay couple could ever be suitable parents under any circumstances.

    On radio 4 they had some christian cheekily claiming it's because "married couples make statistically better parents than co-habiting couples"....now remind me why it is that gays can't get married again....

    All of which leaves me with some questions:

    1) If there any organisation in the UK that has demonstrated it is less suitable to run an adoption agency than the catholic church?
    2) WTF is the govt doing paying my tax dollars to religious groups, instead of paying them direct to the appropriate state agency (that is somehow able to perform the same function without breaking any laws at all)?
    3) If religious people are allowed to pick and choose which laws they think should apply to them, why do we have laws outlawing the practice of female genital mutilation, burning widows to death on their husband's funeral pyres, and stoning people to death for basically any reason at all (including being cheeky to their parents or urinating on walls)? These are all other examples of religious dogma or custom.

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    G4Z
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    Well my knee-jerk reaction is that Church goers shouldn't be able to adopt. i mean seriously, the basic argument they make is that they think its undesirable because the kids get exposed to 'gay' and might, you know, turn gay as well. Well I think its true that religious people try to bring their children into whatever faith and therefore using their own logic I do not think they should be able to adopt.

    Also, any chance of a link to the story as this one has totally passed me by.
    Last edited by G4Z; 24-01-2007 at 08:04 PM.
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    Whatever's best for the kid. I know some gay people who would make great parents and some who would be terrible (one friend was discussing it and it sounded like he wanted a pet, not a kid). It's entirely dependant upon the individual, or couple.

    Most people seem afraid that being brought up by a gay couple will turn the kid gay. While I don't think that being brought up around a gay couple would make someone homosexual, it might seriously confuse the issue. Is it something that will probably sort itself out? Yes. Will it cause some psychological issues? Yes. Will these be less than if a kid was brought up in some substandard care home for kids? Probably. Is the world a perfect place? No. Do religious people bitch too much. Most certainly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibm View Post
    Whatever's best for the kid. I know some gay people who would make great parents and some who would be terrible (one friend was discussing it and it sounded like he wanted a pet, not a kid). It's entirely dependant upon the individual, or couple.

    Most people seem afraid that being brought up by a gay couple will turn the kid gay. While I don't think that being brought up around a gay couple would make someone homosexual, it might seriously confuse the issue. Is it something that will probably sort itself out? Yes. Will it cause some psychological issues? Yes. Will these be less than if a kid was brought up in some substandard care home for kids? Probably. Is the world a perfect place? No. Do religious people bitch too much. Most certainly.
    I don't think anymore needs to be said on the subject than this.

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    Why are gay men more educated than hetrosexual men?

    I'm not gay and I still read books and fings innit.

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    Senior Member JPreston's Avatar
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    Well, they can normally spell 'heterosexual' for a start

    It's just something I remember reading once, on average they have better academic qualifications. Also IIRC they earn up to 15% more on average, which is worth remembering in case you feel stretched by increasing interest rates.

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    i'm sorry but i think that kids who are put up for adapotion, espesually if they are old enough to understand whats going on get a hard enough time anyway. Giving them an 'abnormal' family is going to get them builled sensless.

    abnormal, i mean statistically not the norm, personally i don't feal gay couples should be able to adapot, but in the case of child persicution, it dosen't matter what your or i think, mearly that the kid will get bullied sensless.

    But, asside from the funding, i think its fair to say that gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adapot, i've forgotten the term for the logic used in this flawed argument "there are plenty of bad striaght perants, why not let the good gay ones adapot" but, why let gay people adopt just because there are unsuiteable hetro's?

    End of the day, children benefit from having a mum and a dad. This is generally excepted by educational physcaritists, granted a bad mum or dad isn't whats wanted, but in an ideal world, its mum and dad.

    So why not strive for whats ideal?
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    Flippin' heck, is that supposed to be satire?

    Get a spellchecker man.
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    Senior Member JPreston's Avatar
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    If how likely the child is to be bullied at school was a valid consideration you wouldn't allow mixed-race couples to adopt, fat people to adopt, ginger people to adopt, disabled people to adopt, etc etc.....

    There's a shortage of couples willing to adopt children (especially once they get old, they lose their value quicker than a new car) so the alternative is likely to be keep the child in an institution instead.

    The issue is; is it acceptable for organisations to openly break the law because they believe their religion places them above it?

    These are the same people who were recently rubbing themselves into a frenzy claiming the BA woman who was told not to wear a cross to work was the victim of such heinous discrimination, now demanding to be able to break the law themselves. Goddamn hypocrites.

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    My God the catholic church still runs an adoption agency, considering how many priests are perverts, and how obstructive the roman catholic church is in bringing these perverts to justice. I would have thought it would be a very good idea if the church no longer ran an adoption agency

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    Quote Originally Posted by coco View Post
    My God the catholic church still runs an adoption agency, considering how many priests are perverts, and how obstructive the roman catholic church is in bringing these perverts to justice. I would have thought it would be a very good idea if the church no longer ran an adoption agency
    Amen to that.
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    Senior Member JPreston's Avatar
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    That's incitement to religious hatred, which is now illegal. Discrimination is bad, m'kay?

    Except when it's the same church groups that petitioned for that stupid law who are doing the discriminating. Then discrimination is not only a moral duty, but a legal right!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPreston View Post
    Well, they can normally spell 'heterosexual' for a start

    It's just something I remember reading once, on average they have better academic qualifications. Also IIRC they earn up to 15% more on average, which is worth remembering in case you feel stretched by increasing interest rates.
    Gay people being better educated and earning more is a myth, along with gay people being funnier, more outgoing, and more fashionable.

    These points may well have been true back in the 80s when people were coming out all over the place, but that's because only the intelligent, educated, fashionable, and outgoing ones were confident enough to come out. The stupid, uneducated, unfashionable and socially inept ones stayed in the closet.

    Now you're seeing a society where being gay is more socially acceptable, and the people who weren't confident enough to come out are because they know they've got the support of the pre-accepted group.

    Most importantly however, I know gay people have to be more tolerant than most people just because they've had to deal with intolerance at some point or another (usually during the school years, and bullied people tend to grow up to be sensitive understanding people - or killers with guns, but I don't think they should be allowed to adopt) and would tend to be more aware than, say, your average religious bigot.
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    Senior Member Rack's Avatar
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    It's also very wrong to say that bullying is a reason to not let gay people adopt. OMG.
    Bullying is the problem there, not gay adoption.
    Where's the law that says Mr and Mrs Kerr shouldn't call their kid Wayne??

    At the end of the day having a stable loving home is much much much more important for a childs development and life than having both a mum and a dad.

    Also may I point out that single parents can currently adopt?

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    I'm a churchgoing Anglican, and am deeply disappointed with the attitude that the leadership of my own church has taken on this issue. The Church of Rome has failed to consider what is better for the children in their care, and the Anglican church leadership has (disgracefully) in my view supported them in that lack of care.

    That said, there is a misconception in this thread that the church is somehow wanting to break the law (cf JPreston, obit.). That is incorrect. The law is not yet in effect, so cannot be broken at the moment anyway. The Roman Catholic Church is asking for an exception to anti-discrimination legislation when it comes into force; this is hardly unprecedented. Exceptions already exist to anti-discrimination legislation covering gender or race. For instance, were a shelter especially established for battered women to advertise for a new staff member, they would be entitled to state that only women would be acceptable. It is legitimate to argue for an exception, and it is NOT advocating the breaking of the law, but that said, I am NOT in favour of an exception in this case.

    As regards JPreston's citing of the BA "cross" case, that is not relevant; that case involved members of certain faiths being allowed to wear the outward symbols of that faith (which the churches supported) while a Christian was denied that same right.

    Personally, I know gay couples that I think would make outstanding parents should they wish to adopt, and I am certain that any child would be given a wonderful home by them. The bullying argument is specious; I got bullied at school because of my accent (which, due to the enthusiastic "encouragement" of my mother had more in common with received pronunciation/BBC standard than the Kilburn norm...), because I have psoriasis, blah blah blah. Bullies will always find something to pick on. Denying children who would otherwise be in some bloody care home and kicked out on to the street as soon as the local authority can get shot of them, a loving and supportive home because of bullying denies that child a better life, legitimises bullying, and increases the pressure on childcare provision. Dumb all round, really.

    As far as TheAnimus' post is concerned, there is a massive shortage of adoptive parents, and your "striving for what's ideal" will just leave children in local authority care for their whole childhood. Ideally, every kid would be raised in a mansion in the country with millionaire parents, their every need or whim catered for... You know what? When you get right down to it, there are actually very few "ideal homes"; lots of families have difficulties of one sort or another. If you only allowed the "ideal" family to adopt, no adoptions would ever happen. He mentions funding; a child placed with an adoptive family actually LESSENS funding pressures on the state care system.

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