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Thread: Prayse tha Lawd!

  1. #65
    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
    I've gotta agree with directhex here- although I don't agree with his dismissal of the need for proper punctuation and capital letters. Jo- sort it out man!
    my loving treatment of the apostrophe in a world gone mad makes up for abuse of the humble capital letter.

  2. #66
    Senior Member Kezzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
    I've gotta agree with directhex here- although I don't agree with his dismissal of the need for proper punctuation and capital letters. Jo- sort it out man!

    I have to take issue with Kezzer's assertion that it's atheist who are the aggro troublemakers in life- I've never once been stopped on the street by someone trying to convert me to atheism; religious people of varying flavours still try and convert me to this day.

    I have neither the patience, nor the ability to concentrate, to comment on every point in this thread with which I disagree, so I'm just going to chime in with a personal anecdote. My best friend, who I've known since I was 12 (so 15 years now, and counting), returned to Catholicism with a vengeance when his mother died of cancer three or four years ago. He has pictures of JP2 and Benedict XVI all over his flat.

    He's also bisexual, and when he's being honest admits that he prefers men to women. He has a strong enough sex drive that he can't simply deny his urges- so he basically has to spend his whole life castigating himself for being a sinner. That to me is ridiculous, and I tell him as much. I personally am 100% heterosexual, but as an atheist I don't see that as anything to be proud of, it's just the way I turned out. I wouldn't be the slightest bit bothered if I was bisexual or gay. He on the other hand can't get laid without feeling guilty.

    That's why I'm against organised religion. I couldn't care less about what people choose to believe about the afterlife, or lack of it. It's the way that it screws up people when they're alive that bothers me.
    You're against organised religion because of your bi-sexual religious friend?









    I'm against atheism because of my alcohol-abusing friend then.


  3. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuddam View Post
    well, that was 3 ways, unless we're working with different numbering systems

    let's add #4: you know what love is / have experienced it in your own life. the sum total of all worthwhile endeavours in your life revolve around relationship. There is a God who desires a loving relationship with His creation, although as evidenced by your post, many of His creation do not care 2 hoots.

    #4 negates your theories 1 through 3, I believe.
    Actually that statement just does not make any sense whatsoever. If everything good I do revolves around my relationships, where is "God" involved in all that ?

    As you just said, my life revolves around my relationships ... Not my relationship with God.

    I am willing to concede that God may exist - but I am going to need more proof than faith. If God exists, then this is the way God made me. So I am not going to burn in Hell for something he did.

    Again - End result = Religion is not worth concerning yourself about

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    Senior Member Kezzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinizter View Post
    Actually that statement just does not make any sense whatsoever. If everything good I do revolves around my relationships, where is "God" involved in all that ?
    You're looking for the term "what comes around, goes around", right? Reap what you sow? If you plant good seeds and nurture them then you will be blessed with a great harvest? etc. etc. etc.


  5. #69
    Senior Member JPreston's Avatar
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    Good linkage, better than mine.

    fuddam - your thoughts? Or do you need 'extra time'.... ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kezzer View Post
    You're looking for the term "what comes around, goes around", right? Reap what you sow? If you plant good seeds and nurture them then you will be blessed with a great harvest? etc. etc. etc.

    Nope, I wasnt looking for the "term". And this quoted statement doesnt make that much sense either.

  7. #71
    unapologetic apologist
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPreston View Post
    Good linkage, better than mine.

    fuddam - your thoughts? Or do you need 'extra time'.... ?
    oh no, I'm too stupid to answer.

    hang on, what was the question again?

  8. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinizter View Post
    Actually that statement just does not make any sense whatsoever. If everything good I do revolves around my relationships, where is "God" involved in all that ?
    my point was simply that one should consider God in terms of relationship, not in terms of some puppetmaster who likes to muck around with toys, or who has no idea of His purpose and therefore creates us to work it out.

    As you just said, my life revolves around my relationships ... Not my relationship with God.
    sure. but IF you wanted to know Him, that knowledge would come through developing a relationship with Him. Not trying to follow a set of rules, or religious practices.

    I am willing to concede that God may exist - but I am going to need more proof than faith. If God exists, then this is the way God made me. So I am not going to burn in Hell for something he did.
    Yep, He made you as you are. And accepts you as you are. But the million dollar question is whether you accept Him. And I agree, I would NOT simply accept His existence because someone told me He exists.

    Each Christian in a living relationship with Him would agree that they have proof within - ie not something that can be proven outside, to a non-believer. His existence is that real, due it being a relationship, not a hypothesis. It is 2 way.


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    Sorry dude. Relationships do not convince me of the existence of God. If everyone had something inside them, they should be able to explain or at the very least be able to describe it.

    So God's existence is still a hypotheses.

    I think we should stop here, or we risk repeating ourself over and over again discussing the very same points.

  10. #74
    Senior Member JPreston's Avatar
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    No come on - I think we have a very real chance of finally settling this once and for all

  11. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinizter View Post
    Sorry dude. Relationships do not convince me of the existence of God. If everyone had something inside them, they should be able to explain or at the very least be able to describe it.
    we're talking at cross purposes.

    Wasn't trying to use relationships to convince you of God's existence. Am simply saying that the only way to grasp God's existence is through a relationship with Him, not through some airy fairy appeal to "you must believe because you must and because I say so".

    A Christian can and should be able to describe what it is like to experience God inside them, but Preston et al dismiss it as loony ravings / hallucination / indoctrination / wild fantasy.

    So God's existence is still a hypotheses.
    To someone who has not experienced Him, yes.

    For want of an example, my experience of Christ is essentially JOYFUL. I have joy in my life. A deep seated, deeply felt joy, regardless of context & circumstance -sometimes intense, sometimes simply peaceful. And it is in relationship that I experience it - we have a continual conversation. Every day.

    see? raving looney, that's me.

  12. #76
    Hexus.Jet TeePee's Avatar
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    But fuddam... People claim to have relationships about a lot of different gods. People claim to have a relationship about their imaginary friend.

    Why is your experience different? If you haven't experienced a relationships about other gods, how can you say they aren't real?

    Because your relationship says so?

    Why do christians try to convince people that their relationship is real and noone elses?

    For 'Relationship', substitute 'Delusion'.

  13. #77
    Senior Member Kezzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeePee View Post
    But fuddam... People claim to have relationships about a lot of different gods. People claim to have a relationship about their imaginary friend.

    Why is your experience different? If you haven't experienced a relationships about other gods, how can you say they aren't real?

    Because your relationship says so?

    Why do christians try to convince people that their relationship is real and noone elses?

    For 'Relationship', substitute 'Delusion'.
    Because anyone who isn't a Christian is wrong and will burn in hell. It says so in Kezzer's Gospel Chapter 12, Verse 15

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeePee View Post

    Why do christians try to convince people that their relationship is real and noone elses?

    For 'Relationship', substitute 'Delusion'.
    Because they dont have the mental strength to live with the fact that they might be the one going to hell and burning merrily away because they believed in the wrong god ?

    (Disclaimer: It's more of a joke than a serious statement, so please dont be offended)

  15. #79
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    in answer to the 3 posts above

    1) I never talked about any other religion, did I? I only talked about what I know.

    2) ask a Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Taoist, Shintoist, Anamist etc about how the daily conversation goes with their god/s. Not their side of the conversation, but that of the god/s.

    3) ask people who practice those other religions to describe the nature of that relationship, AS DESCRIBED IN THEIR SACRED TEXT/S. Ask them to describe where it talks about having a personal relationship with said deities, and how that relationship can be characterised. Ask them if having a personal relationship is essential / pivotal to said religion.

    4) ask them WHY their god/s want to have a personal relationship with their creation, and they should quote from their scripture (ie rather than conjecture).

    note: I have not criticised those religions here, nor claimed that they are inaccurate / fallacious etc. There is no point in me saying otherwise.

    In summation, the message of the gospel is one of love, expressed through relationship. I have not seen any other religious document / scripture than comes close.

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    Hexus.Jet TeePee's Avatar
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    No, you haven't answered a single question.

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