7850 / r9 270x upgrade ideas

[edd1234]

Hi,

I've got a friend who's got a PC with an AMD A6-5400K (dual 3.6GHz), 6GB of DDR3 1600, FM2 Motherboard with 1 PCI Express x16 (Gen 2.0), and currently using a HD 7450.
It's a HP or Dell or something like that.

I've already told him if he wanted to upgrade the graphics card, he'd almost definitely need a new power supply. But I just realised that the A6-5400K wasn't as good as I thought it was, and now I'm wondering whether it'll hold back a 2GB 7850, or 2GB R9 270(X).

He's only got one monitor which is 1600x900, and is hoping to play games like Skyrim and BF4 on high-ultra settings. From reviews the 7850 2GB gets about 42 FPS on 1080P BF4, and 60+ on skyrim, and the R9 270x is 60+ for both games.

Two questions are:
-If he ever gets a 1080P monitor, will both cards be good enough to play current games on high-ultra settings between 40-60fps? I'm guessing the 270x will be fine, but not sure about the 7850.

-Is the CPU (A6-5400K) gonna hold him back?
I know it's one of those CPUs you can crossfire with the GPU, but I'm guessing it's too low-a-spec to pair with either of these cards, but he can run the card on its own, right??

Many thanks.

Edit:If no to the CPU, can someone recommend an alternate FM2? On Scan the top FM2 (excluding "+") is the A10 6800k. I'm assuming this'll be good enough, but how much lower could he go?
Edit #2: He just sent me the HP link for his comp. It lists the highest CPU upgrade possible as the A10-5800K. Why is this (not the 6800K)?

[Honosuseri]

The A8 would have been a better choice to be honest as it has a better IGP and more cores. Faster RAM would help boost the integrated graphics. I realise it's a prebuilt system but that will add some more concerns. What size GPU does the case fit and what is the PSU supplied with the system?

Even a non X 270 is a very decent performer @1080P, it's the minimum GPU I tend to recommend for serious gaming on a budget. As far as a CPU upgrade goes it might be worth looking at the Athlons for the FM2 socket, they have no integrated graphics but with a GPU that's not a concern.

[scaryjim]

In an FM2 board there's one obvious choice: the Athlon X4 760. It's basically the CPU section from an A10 APU with the GPU section removed.

at 1600x900, an R7 260X (7790) would probably do at high settings - he might have to dial one or two things back but not many. Otherwise an R9 270 should be fine - it's basically just a lower clocked 270X (7870). But if you're looking to replace the PSU on a Dell or HP you could be in for some fun and games routing all the cables and stuff!

The other alternative, if he's willing to turn a few more bells and whistles down, would be to just get the A10 6800k and use the on-chip graphics: although I'm wondering if the mobo doesn't have the CPU graphics routed, because the A6-5400k actually has a more powerful graphics chip onboard (7540G) than the 7450 - don't see why they'd add a worse graphics card than the onboard one unless they couldn't use the onboard graphics...

It might help if you could find out the actual make & model of the PC....

[edd1234]

Thanks for both the replies.

Here's the link: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/d...name=c03522894

He claims the case is very big, but that's probably only going off what he saw in PC world, so I've told him I'd take a look at the case over the weekend.
I quizzed him about the 7450, but he says there's definitely one in there (as the link says), yet it looks like the motherboard has its own VGA and possibly other ports, so as you said, not sure why they've done that.

Thanks for that suggestion - I hadn't realised APU type-motherboards could use non-iGPU processors. Could you just check that it'll be compatible? The HP page under "Processor upgrade information" only lists a few A-series. Is that because they've been lazy, or because there is potentially an incompatibility?

[Honosuseri]

No worries. We have essentially said the same lol

The case can't be that big as the mobo is mATX, is the A75 chipset though so not utter garbage It's by MSI but I can't find a support page for it from them to see BIOS updates or supported CPUs The PSU is 300W and mostly likely very cheap and nasty. Upgrading cheap prebuilt systems can be a real headache....as you are discovering

[scaryjim]

Looks like a decent sized tower case, so probably OK to work in. The motherboard is mATX, nicely laid out, and uses the A75 chipset which is the middle option for FM2 - decent but not top end. The Athlon CPUs will definitely fit in the socket(!), but they might not be recognised in the BIOS if there's no official update to support them. This doesn't usually stop the CPU working, but it might cause issues and some features of the CPU might not be available. It's all down to whether he's willing to risk it.

Apparently the motherboard is preconfigured to disable the IGP if a graphics card is used, so no funky dual graphics setups for you I'm afraid! The IGP wouldn't be worth pairing with any of the cards you're looking at though, so no worries there.

Most OEMs actually spec very reasonable PSUs and 300W is actually plenty for a lower end gaming rig, so if the PSU has a couple of spare molex to adapt you could probably run any card up to an R9 270 (one PCIe connector). Pricewise the best value guaranteed compatible APU is probably the A8-5600k (since you're not using the IGP) - it's only 200MHz slower then the A10-5800k but costs > £20 less. The Athlon 760k is faster and cheaper, but not guaranteed to work.

If you want to guarantee that the upgrade will work, the A8-5600k is a shoo-in. As for the graphics, you'll need to know what spare connectors the PSU has. If it has two spare 4 pin molex connectors, I'd get an R9 270 (non-x) and an adapter like these (2 molex to 6 pin PCIe). Otherwise you're looking at a new PSU and pretty much whatever graphics takes his fancy.

[scaryjim]

... The PSU is 300W and mostly likely very cheap and nasty ...

Hate to double post, but this is a common - and dangerous - misconception. Most major OEMs, which HP certainly is, can't afford the risk of cheap nasty PSUs as they could take out entire PCs leading to a poor reputation and costly replacements. They use basic but good designs from reputable manufacturers like FSP and Tagan, who are big names in industrial and server PSUs, but less so in the component channel. They also make sure their PSUs are specced properly, which is why they're only rated at 300W not 700W like the rubbish that gets sold with cheap cases. 300W is plenty of power for a modern gaming rig - check out a recent hexus review and you'll see that it's only rigs with top end cards that pull more than 200W - the Hexus R9 270 test rig only pulled 150W from the wall at full load.

As long as it's got the connectors, you'll be fine powering a GPU from it.

[Butuz]

Would be helpful to know the exact make and model, some times the likes of HP and dell use weird sized power supply - as in physical size, he could buy a new 500w psu and find it doesn't actually fit!

Butuz

[Honosuseri]

Hate to double post, but this is a common - and dangerous - misconception.

Dangerous? How is being cautious dangerous? I'm simply saying the PSU might well need to be changed.....you have also said it might well come to that. I've seen plenty of store bought basic PCs (Dell, Advent etc) have their PSUs burn out taking other components with them. That was from "wear and tear" not adding more components increasing the power draw.

(@ OP) I would personally say change the PSU for say the Corsair CX 430 or better still the 500M. It's their budget range but there is a decent warranty and protection in place for sure, the semi-modular cables will make life easier in the naff OEM case too. The 270 rather than the 270X makes sense for bang for buck on the GPU front as we've already discussed.

The A6 will be ok for Skyrim and older titles, BF4 is a different animal. I still have a dual core Phenom II 555BE (OC'd @4.2Ghz) knocking around and BF3 would stutter and that was just the single player. It might be wise to contact HP support directly to see what upgrades are possible. Adding an A10K and a GPU together doesn't make alot of sense to be honest. He might be better off doing the PSU & GPU upgrade then weigh up changing the mobo and CPU later on and reuse his RAM. The AM3 6300 CPU would be better than the FM2 Athlon for example.

Would be helpful to know the exact make and model, some times the likes of HP and dell use weird sized power supply - as in physical size, he could buy a new 500w psu and find it doesn't actually fit!

Butuz

That's true, even the mobos can be an odd size, as I said upgrading OEM systems can be a real pain

[Bonebreaker777]

Death to OEMs.
Call or contact customer support for definitive CPU support (Athlon 4x > A8 for price).
The insides of OEMs can be messy for expansion, beware!

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The case might have issue with longer cards.

Here are pictures of the 300W PSU:

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Desktop...t/td-p/3358537

Its from the earlier Llano version of the system and is a 300W Delta. However,it seems to lack any PCI-E power connectors.

Here is some motherboard information:

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/d...us&dlc=en#N127

It can take upto an A10 5800K and hence might not work with any of the Richland CPUs like the A10 6800K and Athlon II X4 760K.

[kalniel]

Dangerous? How is being cautious dangerous?

More dangerous from the libel perspective

You can say 'I wouldn't use a PSU from X' but probably can't say 'The power supplies from X are most likely very cheap and nasty' unless you can back it up with proof.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I would look at one of these cards:

http://www.cclonline.com/product/135...yPort/VGA2238/
http://www.cclonline.com/product/130...yPort/VGA2036/
http://www.cclonline.com/product/134...ptor-/VGA2191/

They look reasonably short,although I have not had a proper look at the R9 270 based cards and hence have not listed any of them.

Is it possible you can get a measurement of the distance from the backplate to the HDD mounting plate?? You will be able a good indication of what length graphics cards you can use.

I would get this PSU:

http://www.cclonline.com/product/554...tion-/PSU0202/

Its shorter than normal and uses a ball bearing fan unlike most PSUs at the same price.

I would get this CPU:

http://www.cclonline.com/product/111...tail-/CPU0188/

The A6 5400K has less L2 cache per core than the A8 and A8 CPUs,so will probably have lower single threaded IPC. Moreover,the X4 750K has twice the number of cores meaning even in lightly threaded situations you are going to see one thread per core being used first too,which helps with performance.

[scaryjim]

More dangerous from the libel perspective

I was thinking more of the "danger" of throwing away a perfectly good PSU and replacing it with something that's no better, and potentially worse. So OK, it's not a physical danger, but I'd've thought that was obvious. Any misconcpetion is potenitally dangerous because it can cause you to act unreasonably.

But as Kalniel rightly says, your comment also essentially amounts to saying "HP probably use cheap nasty PSUs in their computers". Left to stand, HP could potentially pursue Hexus, as the publisher of that comment, for defamation. I hate to say it, but you have to be very careful what you say in public on the internet. Twitter's been getting all the headlines in terms of court cases, but the same principle applies to any information published on the internet...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Delta is a decent OEM as PSUs go,but my major gripe is the lack of dedicated PCI-E power connectors. The PSU has two 12V lines with 12A and 16A respectively.

[scaryjim]

... my major gripe is the lack of dedicated PCI-E power connectors ...

That's what molex to PCIe adapters are for I can see Dell/HP's reckoning with this one - their machines aren't meant to be user upgradeable. So they stick in the PSU that they are willing to build to in that model. You want a more powerful PSU, you should've bought a more powerful model to start with. Frustrating for enthusiasts wanting to reuse major OEM base units, but good for ordinary consumers as they don't get an overspecified unit just in case someone wants to upgrade their box outside of HP's specifications.