Upgrade help (AMD Phenom II X6 1090T & MSI 770) OR should I buy a new build?

[ERU]

Hi all,

I’ve been reading about Ryzen CPUs and beginning to get the upgrade itch again after asking for help in July 2015 and still being somewhat out of the game, I need some upgrade help...

I’m looking to use it mainly for Adobe Photoshop, Adobe Indesign, Adobe Photoshop and sometimes gaming every few months, (Warhammer 2: Total War or Witcher 3). I’m aware I have an ageing rig but what are my current bottlenecks? Should I just bite the bullet and go for a complete rebuild? Is it worth it?


Here is my current rig:

CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T - 3.2 GHz Six Core (HDT90ZFBGRBOX) Processor <<< Should I leave or go Ryzen?


Mobo: MSI 770-C45 (MS-7599)

PSU: Be Quiet BQT L67-530W

GPU: Asus R9 270 2GB DC2OC 2GD5 <<< Would a £100/£150 (maybe second hand) card make a significant difference?

DDR: Crucial (BLS4G3D1609DS1S00) 2x4gb DDR3 PC3-12800 (800mhz) • 9-9-9-24 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR3-1600 • 1.5V • 512Meg x 64 <<< I'm aware if I for for a Ryzen I'll need new DDR

HDD: Samsung SSD 830 120gb / Raptor 70gb / WD740GD-00FLA2 280GB <<< Should I keep the SSD? I'm keep to get a 7200rpm 3tb drive to go with just a single SSD.

Case: Sunbeam ATX Mid Tower Case

LCD Monitor: 27" CrossOver 2795QHD (hacked to 96hz)

Peripherals:
Saitek Eclipse keyboard
Logitech G203 Prodigy Gaming Mouse - Optical 6,000 DPI, Wired
Fellowes Mouse Pad with Microban Antibacterial Protection - Black

[ERU]

UPDATE - Here are my thoughts so far: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/ERU/saved/#view=wDK8K8

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor (£181.00 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: MSI - B350 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard (£95.62 @ Box Limited)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (£120.07 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Seagate - Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£50.59 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Asus - Radeon R9 270 2GB DirectCU II Video Card
Power Supply: be quiet! - 530W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit
Total: £447.28
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-10-01 17:02 BST+0100

[EndlessWaves]

I’m aware I have an ageing rig but what are my current bottlenecks?

Where are you noticing slow downs?

[Zak33]

OK, here's real users findings

I have a Phenom 2 Hex core at home.. and I use a Ryzen too here are work

Get a Ryzen 5 minimum, so you get 6 core with 12 threads.

v v fast!!!

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I would second going for a Ryzen 5 1600.

What is your total budget for the parts?

[scaryjim]

I think there's a couple of important, and possibly opposing, things to consider here:

... what are my current bottlenecks?

As EndlessWaves asks - what are you noticing that's particularly slow/performing worse than you'd like? If the answer is nothing, then you don't really have any bottlenecks. The existing build looks fairly well balanced.

...Should I just bite the bullet and go for a complete rebuild? Is it worth it? ...

There aren't many update options for your AM3 platform, so if you decide you do need more performance than you currently have, it will have to be a complete rebuild. At that point whether it's worth it will actually come down to your total budget. For instance, in your part list you've picked the lowest possible Ryzen 3, and you're looking at £100 - £150 graphics cards, which suggests you've not got much of a budget to play with. If you did go with the Ryzen 3 and an RX 560, you'd only make significant gains in single threaded performance. The extra cores of your X6 would make up the difference in multithreaded workloads, and you'd only gain ~ 20% extra graphics performance. I personally wouldn't call that "worth it" for the expenditure.

... I’ve been reading about Ryzen CPUs and beginning to get the upgrade itch again...

You see, this, OTOH, is a completely different matter. It sounds very much like you want to build a new PC, and you're hoping that you can justify it based on performance gains.

So here's my advice. If you want to build a new PC, and it will bring you pleasure to do so, then it may well be worth it on that basis alone. Don't worry about the performance benefits.

If you want to get the best value out of the money you spend on the rebuild, I'd suggest dumping your entire budget into the CPU, Mobo and (wince shudder bleed) the RAM (which is currently very expensive due to supply issues), keeping your existing GPU - particularly since you say the gaming is "sometimes". Currently available GPUs in the £100 - £150 price bracket aren't going to be a huge upgrade on your R9 270, whereas pushing the CPU up to a Ryzen 5 1500X will give you a big jump over the Phenom II X6 - much bigger than the Ryzen 3 would. If you can afford it it would even be worth considering the Ryzen 5 1600.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The two games the OP mentioned can tax the CPU quite a bit and are also reasonably multi-threaded.

Edit!!

I would check this review out:

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/959-...1400-test.html

The Ryzen 5 will be a big upgrade even for non-gaming usage over a Phenom II X6 and that is an early review using a less mature motherboard with only 2400MHZ DDR4 - Ryzen scales well faster RAM too.

Second Edit!!

Having said that both those games can tax a graphics card too. W3 with settings maxed out can even push my GTX1080 at qHD:

https://forums.hexus.net/reader-revi...ml#post3781930

[peterb]

You see, this, OTOH, is a completely different matter. It sounds very much like you want to build a new PC, and you're hoping that you can justify it based on performance gains.

So here's my advice. If you want to build a new PC, and it will bring you pleasure to do so, then it may well be worth it on that basis alone. Don't worry about the performance benefits.

Wise words indeed. Justifying a build on some nebulous 'performance increase' is a bit of a fudge. On the other hand, building it because its something you want to do for the fun and challenge of doing so with the bonus of getting some additional performance as well is a perfectly legitimate reason - and then it comes down to budget and use!

Looking forward to seeing the final build!

[ERU]

UPDATE
I've just purchased a Seagate ST2000DM006 Barracuda 2000 GB Hard Drive as I need to get some more storage in my main rig. Only 2tb as all memory seems to have shot up in price, and this was good bang-for-buck @ £55.81


My other thoughts so far are:
1. All the above comments seem very valid and I fully agree - I do like building new rigs once in while... (My Athlon Liquid Cooling days may be over tho.) Bottlenecks experienced are loading times and 1080 gaming over 30fps (i.e. getting the settings/graphics turned up).
2. Based on the above advice, I'm thinking I should sort a CPU / mobo / DDR4 combo? This is providing I don't have to also go for 'extras' like a new case or PSU. I'll need a double check on compatibility. And of course that the DDR4 price isn't too insane.
3. I'll also have a think about the GPU, but it's looking like I may be spending more than I wish then. My budget is about £400-500 ish.

I've also updated the PC Part Picker links above with current ideas. Struggling on what mobo to go for...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The two games you mentioned can tax both your CPU and GPU quite especially with settings turned up:

https://forums.hexus.net/reader-revi...ml#post3783496

That is the W3 with everything turned up including Hairworks on an RX470 4GB but its also not in the cities which can be a bit more taxing too. I would probably wait for another sub £200 deal on an RX570,so its worth checking HUKD.

If you have free Scan postage I would probably get this CPU and motherboard:

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd-...65w-cpu-retail
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus...ng-motherboard

Its probably the best B350 motherboard out there in terms of the VRM,although you could probably get a lower end X370 for not much more:

https://www.ebuyer.com/784960-msi-am...0-krait-gaming

Both should be fine if you want to overclock a Ryzen 7 1700 for example. If you are only going to stick with a Ryzen 5 I would suggest the following motherboard:

https://www.ebuyer.com/780726-msi-am...-b350-tomahawk

I would aim for at least 3000MHZ to 3200MHZ DDR4 RAM and check the QVL lists for memory to get as close a match as possible.

[ERU]

Cheers Cat et al, I've updated my PCpartpicker link with some of your suggestions.

Mobo: I've gone with the MSI B350 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard. I don't think I'll be too bothered with overclocking, cooling issues and anything unstable. I just want a rock solid system that won't need tinkering - I don't have time for it anymore. (Maybe I could put a Threadripper in over the next few years if I need more mhz. Maybe an M2 too?)

CPU: It sounds like there is no point in doing this rebuild unless I go for a minimum of Ryzen 1700. (The 1600 will kept costs down but has less cores/threads...) I'll base the system around this. Or would I get away with a cheaper Ryzen now and look to upgrade the CPU later when prices lower. Keeping cost down is a factor for me.

HSF: The stock cooler should be ok? I've got a Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo, on my Phenom II x6, so I will investigate if that fits a MSI B350.

DDR: Very undecided about DDR. The prices are sky high... I'd like enough to play with i.e. 16gb+. But thinking I should just get something cheap (i.e. single 8gb stick) for now and wait till Black Friday or some sort of price crash/deal. I've added some Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 whilst I mull it all over.

PSU: Can I also check my old Be Quiet BQT L67-530W (and case) is going to power this lot. Does the mobo need some sort of special/new rail? Connector?

GPU: I'm going past budget for this, so the Radeon R9 270 2GB will stay for now. Maybe I should consider something similar / cheap with more vram to help though? Possibly off eBay? As I presume this will be my only major bottleneck after the above Ryzen build.

SSD: I presume the Samsung 830 120gb I got will be fine? And not limiting? I'll use the newly purchased 2tb Seagate 7200rpm for storage.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

A mate uses a Tomahawk B350 and a Ryzen 5 1600 and seems quite solid as a combo. Ryzen like Skylake really likes its memory bandwidth - 4 DIMMs will be mean you can't run the RAM as fast. I would aim for a 16GB 3000MHZ set - I am a bit hit and miss with Corsair since it can be a mix of RAM module types so when Ryzen was first launched there was no guarantee if the RAM would even hit 2667MHZ! I think things are somewhat better now due to the newer AGESA releases.

[scaryjim]

... It sounds like there is no point in doing this rebuild unless I go for a minimum of Ryzen 1700. (The 1600 will kept costs down but has less cores/threads...) I'll base the system around this. Or would I get away with a cheaper Ryzen now and look to upgrade the CPU later when prices lower. Keeping cost down is a factor for me. ...

Unless you have workloads that really shine with the extra threads - and I don't think your workloads do? - I can't see the move from 6C to 8C really paying back the extra expense.

As to upgrades, socket AM4 will last at least 2 more generations (next year in a move to 12nm with minor tweaks, and in 2019 with a major core revision and a further shrink to 7nm). I wouldn't consider getting a 1600 to upgrade to a 1700, but I would buy a 1600 now in the knowledge that there'll be a range of new processors in two years time that will drop in to the same motherboard!

... I would aim for a 16GB 3000MHZ set ...

iirc AMD said that Ryzen processors don't have a divider for 3000MHz RAM - they jump from 2933MHz to 3200MHz. On that basis - unless the price difference is significant - I'd be tempted to look at 3200MHz kits as a minimum...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Unless you have workloads that really shine with the extra threads - and I don't think your workloads do? - I can't see the move from 6C to 8C really paying back the extra expense.

As to upgrades, socket AM4 will last at least 2 more generations (next year in a move to 12nm with minor tweaks, and in 2019 with a major core revision and a further shrink to 7nm). I wouldn't consider getting a 1600 to upgrade to a 1700, but I would buy a 1600 now in the knowledge that there'll be a range of new processors in two years time that will drop in to the same motherboard!



iirc AMD said that Ryzen processors don't have a divider for 3000MHz RAM - they jump from 2933MHz to 3200MHz. On that basis - unless the price difference is significant - I'd be tempted to look at 3200MHz kits as a minimum...

3000MHZ sets tend to be cheaper,so if the OP wants 16GB then that is the minimum speed I would aim for - running all 4 DIMMs populated with drop the speed you can run them at.

[ERU]

I've updated the PC Part Picker link again. (Can't do screenshot atm as I'm on my phone.)
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/ERU/saved/wDK8K8

I can see some Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory for £120.07. That look ok?

What about all my other comments above. I'm getting near to pulling the trigger, but need to make sure I've not made any glaring errors in the research/suggestions.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

PCPartPicker is a bit crap TBH - as it seems to pull out random prices from third party sellers and US based ones which means you are not covered by UK retail laws. It also tends to not always include postage either.

The Ryzen 5 1600 price is from a third party seller who I have never heard off!! The memory price is not valid too.

Edit!!

I had a quick look and found these sets:

https://www.cclonline.com/product/24...y-Kit/RAM3626/
https://www.ebuyer.com/807442-patrio...m-pv416g320c6k

The MSI B350 Tomahawk is around £95 from both retailers.

The Ryzen 5 1600 is around £183 from CCL Computers but is £180 delivered from Scan if you get free postage.

Edit!!

Looking at the RAM QVL,Patriot is listed but not exactly those two sets(similar series though):

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/supp...#support-mem-2

Doing some research,the 3200MHZ set looks OK unless the specifications have changed:

https://3dnews.ru/950757/page-2.html#Patriot

The 3000MHZ appears to be dual ranked so will top out at 2667MHZ,but again this was with an earlier AGESA. Its annoying that tech sites really have not done too much examination of later AGESA versions to see if compatibility has improved as the article is from April this year.

Second Edit!!

With an update to the latest AGESA,it seems you can get the rated speed with the 3200MHZ Patriot kit with the MSI B350 Tomahawk:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment...16_agesa_1006/