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Thread: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

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    Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    I'm considering purchasing a new gaming rig from Scan but have just been burnt by a bad experience from another company and decided to run my situation past the forum, to see how Scan might approach it, as I am scared the same situation may occur with another system.

    I am NOT in any way a PC-tech person. I'm a gamer, not someone who builds their own rigs etc. Therefore I am very reliant on an efficient and helpful technical support staff.

    I bought a Diablo Xtreme machine from W2F, specifically for my World of Warcraft habit. Within first day of playing I experienced error 4101 (TDR error - entire screen blacks out for a few seconds, driver error recovery message) and experienced about 40 more over a period of 6 days gaming. TDR seems attributable to a variety of vendor-side factors, everything potentially from hardware to driver config, and the vendor seemed to have little understanding of the issue.

    The company blamed WoW. However, a bit of research indicates that TDR is a known issue and the gaming experience is likely a symptom of some build conflict, rather than caused by the game. I'd like to link to the relevant Nvidia forum posts here but as a new sign-up I can't

    We did replace the graphics card and try disabling/extending TDR times, plus a variety of other things to see if they would stop the 4101s. They didn't and the company refused to do anything more than run a Furmark test, which found nothing. They refused to even update their installation version of chipsets, which were over a year old and had been updated several times since.

    We have now given up on the system and I am considering purchasing a similar specced rig from Scan. However, not having been able to establish the cause of the TDR I am scared to spend the money, only to have the same thing happen.

    The specs I had and am looking to acquire similar were:
    Power Supply: Modular 850W Power Supply (80 Plus Certified)
    Processor: Core i7 2600K 8MB Cache Socket 1155
    CPU Cooler: Titan Fenrir EVO CPU Cooler
    Graphics Card 1: nVidia GeForce GTX 580 1536MB GDDR5 PCI Express Graphics Card
    Memory: 8GB Corsair DDR3 1600MHz C9 Dual Channel Memory Kit (4 x 2GB)
    Motherboard: Asus P8P67 Pro Intel P67 (Socket 1155) Motherboard
    Hard Disk Drive One: Corsair Force 120GB SATA II 2.5
    Hard Disk Drive Two: Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black 64MB Cache SATA III
    Sound Card: Onboard HD 7.1 Audio
    Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (64-bit)

    My questions are:
    have any forum users with similar set-ups experienced the 4101 whilst playing WoW or other games?
    If my hypothetical Scan system displays the same errors, will you work with me to look at hardware and driver/system settings to locate the cause?
    Last edited by Kammie; 05-09-2011 at 09:17 AM.

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    JagerBomber Mossy's Avatar
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    Re: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    First of all welcome to Hexus and our forum. I would like to confirm if you experience any problems with your new Scan machine we are always here to work with and pin point the issues which may be causing your system to be unstable. All our systems have extensive testing and any specific requirements you may have providing you do not mind the extra testing time if it builds your confidence for Scan to run a particular game before we ship to yourself we are more than happy to help in this situation. Although we test at 100% we can never account for 3rd party software which can cause instability but if this occurs we have our system team who can talk with you over the phone to diagnose the problems.

    If you wish to be quoted please post and I can produce a quote for your requirements.

    Best Regards
    __________________
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    Re: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    Thank you for the reply and the welcome.

    Thanks for the offer, no need for a quote as I'm currently looking at your customisable systems to see what variable options I'd like to select.

    My vendor claim they tested my system extensively before delivery and then, following complaints, specifically using a basic trial version of WoW (altho they did not actually play it, they left the game client open and moved the mouse every few minutes, to keep it open). Unfortunately, my experience with the 4101s was very intermittent. I could play for 8 hours straight without a problem, or I could experience 3 screen blackouts in a row shortly after starting to play. It was without pattern, altho they did tend to occur in the more intensive end-game areas they could also occur in starter zones. What I mean is, in order to confirm the game is stable, it would mean an experienced player playing full-version high-level for a while. It wouldn't be a fair use of your time.

    However, I really don't believe the issue is caused by Warcraft, rather than it's the victim of whatever is at fault in the set-up. It's just that, for me, that's pretty much all I use the PC for so I can't say "oh, it happens when I'm playing X and Y too, or when I'm viewing videos etc". From browsing the Nvidia forums, there seems to be some concern it could relate to the hardware, the cooling, the drivers not liking each other etc, it seems to be a horribly vague problem which only tends to manifest when doing certain activities which push the system. I'm dreading it happening again, should I purchase a similar system but if the system team would be willing to help, in that event, that would be appreciated.

    However, in theory, should I end up with the same problem and find myself with a system not fit for its intended purpose and a dead-end with identifying the blackouts source, where would I stand with replacement/refunds?
    Last edited by Kammie; 05-09-2011 at 09:20 AM.

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    JagerBomber Mossy's Avatar
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    Re: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    Refunds and replacements for a custom system would be determined by our terms & conditions but as a company we are will look into any issues you may be experiencing with your system. If you have an intermittent problem we will try to replicate the issue and fix this under warranty providing we find a fault. Known issues usually are confirmed with the manufacturer of the hardware or incompatibilities so we have a very good idea with the help of our own R&D department what works and what doesn't

    I hope this information helps with your choice of retailer

    Best Regards
    __________________
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    Re: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    I had that same fault myself and it was indeed a World of Warcraft fault, but it was caused by addons rather than by wow itself. After it went wrong once, even after disabling all add ons, same problem, never could find the source, but it only happened in wow and only after a certain addon was activated, though cant remember which one it was now.

    In the end I reinstalled Windows to fix that problem

    Regards
    Jon

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    Re: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    Blimey, Jon, reinstalling Windows to fix a problem caused by a WoW add-on? That's quite an extreme work-round

    I did get a replacement machine, did a clean install of WoW. I've tried it with no add-ons, lowest possible graphics settings, no sound etc etc and the driver error still occurs. I can't believe a well-specced gaming rig can't handle one of the most popular online games on the market. There has to be some obscure issue.

    That said, they are offering nothing more than another Furmark test and I'm done with them. Scan has some nice looking systems, good customisation options and certainly seems better at customer communication so I'll buy a new machine, hope that all works as intended and that I don't need to call in the tech-support
    Last edited by Kammie; 05-09-2011 at 09:21 AM.

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    Re: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    Indeed, but I used to play wow a lot and had to have that computer up and running, plus being the leader of a guild at the time didnt look too good, when I couldnt see where I was going lol.

    It wasnt the machine that was the problem, it was deffo wow related. Never did work out what add on did it but it was after I installed a new UI the problems occured.

    I am sure you will have no problems with Scan, they have always answered any concerns I have had in a timely manner and never had any issues or problems with anything I have bought.

    Regards
    Jon

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    Re: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    Silverstone Sugo SG01B
    Corsair HX 620W
    Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H
    AMD X4 945
    OCZ 8GB 1066MHz Platinum DDR2
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    Vista 64Bit

    Are my system specs - much lower than the system you specified and it runs wow fine without any TSR issues.

    So its likely to be either incompatibility between some of your newer high end components or a driver issue.

    Have you gone through a lot of the nvidia drivers? From old ones to the newest available?
    Have you watched your graphics card temps whilst ingame?
    Have you tried underclocking the card a little and ramping the fan speed to max - just to test if its temp related?

    What settings are you running wow at?

    Are you forcing any video settings in the nvidia drivers? Rather than through wow?

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    Re: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    Thanks Jon. Shame you don't recall which add-on! I only run a few, Recount, BigWigs, Omen etc and it fails without them, but perhaps we have different causes.

    Thanks for the comments Siuko. I have access to a mac, an elderly laptop running Win7 and two PCs, both windows XP, Nvidia cards etc, none of which do this 4101 blackout thing. It's only since I moved to Win7 and the higher specs it's failed, which is why I'm wary of buying a new high-spec machine. Needs must tho.

    Regarding the things you ask, I've tried several Nvidia drivers. No change. I've run CPU and GPU scans and was told the results didn't show anything unusual. I don't have an over-clocked machine and wouldn't know where to begin underclocking anything, that is beyond my *very* limited practical knowledge. The fans, afaik, are open to max. I've tried WoW on every settings, from Low graphics, to Ultra and Dirx9, Dirx11 etc. All fails. Specifically, are there any settings you mean? After all, there are a lot of options. Sorry, I have no idea what "forcing any video settings" means. I haven't touched anything in the card settings on the machine, so I guess not. I do not build, maintain or self-upgrade hardware or deal in the deeper internal system settings so I'm not able to give a clear answer there.
    Last edited by Kammie; 11-08-2011 at 03:43 PM.

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    Re: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    With everything that you describe...

    And all the things that you have tried it makes me think that its the graphics card itself.

    Have you tried another card in your system incase the card is unstable?

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    Re: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    With the first machine, they replaced the graphics card and we still got the errors. I've had the replacement rebuild for 4 days now. We won't be changing the card in that, if we can't resolve the issue this time we'll just return the system. It's been 2 months of messing about and false promises. Will be time to try Scan instead!

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    Re: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    Which exact power supply do you have?

    Many posts on the web seem to mention power supplies (that even though they are high W) cannot provide enough power on the 12V rails to power the GTX580

    Also which make/model graphics card do you have?

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    Re: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    Hi Kammie

    World of Warcraft doesnt officially support Overclocking of components, this is discussed on the Blizzard Forums in detail and for this and other games that dont support Overclocking we always create a Standard Non Overclocked Bios Profile so that the games play ok

    I recently found that Battlefield Bad Company didnt like my Overclock so I had to turn it off to finish the game, the same settings I played through Crysis 2 and The Witcher 2 with no issues so at the end of the day it is down to the game coders to support overclocked hardware and unfortunately for us hardcore gamers they dont all allow for it...

    I have a link for this at work for the World of Warcraft thread and can email it to you tomorrow if you drop me a reminder email in the morning to systemsupport@scan.co.uk

    Regards

    Ben

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    Re: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    It's not the devs, they cannot support overclocking...it's just an unstable overclock Some games will tax the CPU more and games that use more threads are more likely to show instability. I believe both WoW and BF are both well optimised for multi-core.
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    3XS Support Manager Ben @ Scan's Avatar
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    Re: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    Hi

    I found that info off Blizzards Forum

    http://eu.blizzard.com/support/artic...uery=overclock

    Overclocking and overheating

    "The game attempts to use your hardware to its fullest. If you overclock your hardware in any way, even if other applications on your computer are stable, it may cause problems with the game. Please set all your components to their factory default speeds while playing the game"

    Regards

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    Re: Potential Customer - Concerned To Avoid Repeating Past Problems

    Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions. Don't think it's applicable tho, never had an overclocked system and have no plans to buy one

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