Problems with return

[teppic]

Hi,

I returned an AMD APU to you recently because of problems running it with memory above 1866MHz.

I tried two sets of RAM certified at 2133MHz and both wouldn't post at all with my ASRock board. It was ok at 1866MHz. Both sets worked fine in my other PC at 2133MHz.

I thought it might be the board, so I tried the APU and the memory in an Asus board instead, and the exact same results - no post at all. Again, ok at 1866MHz.

ASRock support told me the problem was with the APU.

Today I've had an email to say no fault was found. Since I did a large amount of testing, two sets of RAM and two motherboards, I cannot agree there is no fault.

[Mark@SCAN]

Hi,

The CPU returned was tested with the following components:

Asrock FM2A75 Pro4 – latest BIOS (defaults) RAM profile loaded.

Corsair Vengence CMZ8GX3M2A2400C10 – 8Gb – 2x4Gb – 2400Mhz (10-12-12-31)

Checked speeds in Win7 64Bit via CPUz

It's possible that the board/memory is just very particular as to the type of memory it will work at that speed with, do you know if the memory you have is on the QVL list for the board?

Regards

[teppic]

Can you try with 2133MHz RAM? 2400MHz is overclocking the APU, while 2133MHz is officially fully supported.

I tried the two sets of memory with default profiles, and with looser timings without any luck.

I did manage to post with Patriot Viper 3 Black Mamba RAM, but only at 1.65v instead of the normal 1.5v. But when I ran memcheck, it failed.

Like I say, I tried two different boards, one ASRock and one Asus, both with the same result.

[Mark@SCAN]

Given that we've tested with 2400mhz memory I'd argue the APU isn't the limiting factor here.

I assume the memory you are using isn't memory purchased from SCAN?

Regards

[teppic]

ASRock said that since the memory controller is part of the APU, that's where the problem lies. They said that 2400MHz or higher can't be guaranteed, but 2133MHz will be fine if the RAM is rated at that speed.

It may be with your particular RAM it's much more resilient than normal as it's very high speed. The APU should work with 2133MHz RAM without any issues, which is why I suggested that.

I got the RAM elsewhere, yes. I've returned my board now, so I'd just like a refund on this APU. I thoroughly tested it to confirm the problem, and had only had it a couple of weeks before raising the RMA.

[luke97]

ASRock said that since the memory controller is part of the APU, that's where the problem lies. They said that 2400MHz or higher can't be guaranteed, but 2133MHz will be fine if the RAM is rated at that speed.

It may be with your particular RAM it's much more resilient than normal as it's very high speed. The APU should work with 2133MHz RAM without any issues, which is why I suggested that.

I got the RAM elsewhere, yes. I've returned my board now, so I'd just like a refund on this APU. I thoroughly tested it to confirm the problem, and had only had it a couple of weeks before raising the RMA.

So it's not just you that returned a faulty item that was deemed to be 'no faults found'? I've also noticed a few people with the same problem on other forum sites. I guess you've also been charged for either testing or collection fees?

[Mark@SCAN]

So it's not just you that returned a faulty item that was deemed to be 'no faults found'? I've also noticed a few people with the same problem on other forum sites. I guess you've also been charged for either testing or collection fees?

Luke you have your own thread, please do not hijack this one.

Regards

[Mark@SCAN]

teppic,

I'm going to get the APU re-tested for you today with some 2133mhz memory and will post back later once the testing is complete.

Regards

[Mark@SCAN]

Ok so we've re-tested your APU with some 2133 memory I have just taken out of stock for this purpose:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/8gb-(...11-11-11-27-xm

And it works no problem:

Also which exact A85X chipset board do you have? as when I have checked the ASRock website it indicates that support for 2133 is by (OC) there is also a disclaimer on the ASRock site which states: "Note3: The O.C. mode is not guaranteed. It depends on whole system configuration and other parameters."
So I think it's a little disingenuous of ASRock to suggest the fault lies with the CPU when we have clearly proved otherwise, as my earlier post suggests it sounds more like compatibility of the combination of board/APU/memory you are using, also interestingly ASRock only list 4 2133 memory kits on there memory support list 3 of which are 2GB kits and only 1 4GB kit:

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A85X...e6/?cat=Memory

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A85X...Specifications

[teppic]

The APU supports 2133MHz, it isn't an overclock to use it. Until the recent release of this APU, the officially supported maximum was 1866MHz, and so it seems they just need to update the specs.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...esktops.aspx#7

I also had the same results on an Asus F2A85-M motherboard.

I'd accept that it could be a problem with the combination, had I not reproduced the problem with a completely different set of hardware with the APU the only common part. Hence I don't think you can say you've 'clearly proved' otherwise.

Also, like I said, I managed to get the system booted by running one set of memory well above its stated voltage, but it failed memcheck every time, indicating that it was definitely not working correctly.

I appreciate that you have had better luck than I have, but since I have tried two motherboards and two sets of memory, I'm not quite sure what you expect I should do? Keep buying boards/memory until I get a combination that works just to run this APU at its official stock settings? Since I've already had to return two boards to Amazon at my cost, I'm not willing to spend any more time and money on this - I have thoroughly tested the APU and reproduced the fault and would like a refund.

[Mark@SCAN]

I am not disputing the APU supports 2133mhz we have tested with 2133mhz and 2400mhz for that matter! and confirmed it is working as evidenced by the above screenshots if the CPU wasn't working with memory @ 2133mhz how did we get the above screenshots?

The problem is the motherboard does NOT support 2133mhz without "OC" and therein lies the rub.

Unless the CPU is faulty I am afraid we are unable to provide a refund and it has been proven the CPU is not faulty.

I accept it may not have worked in the way you anticipated with your other equipment but as far as I can see that is down to compatibility and we do not warrant the compatibility or the suitability of the goods we sell this is the responsibility of the user.

In addition the return was made outside of 7 working days from the date after delivery so unfortunately we are unable to accept back under the DSR's for refund.

Regards

[teppic]

The memory controller is part of the APU, and that does support 2133MHz. Every board I've seen still states anything over 1866MHz as an overclock in the specs because aside from the very recent A10-6800K it is.

If you read my post above again you will see that I managed to boot by increasing the voltage of the memory, and could have taken similar shots. A boot up into Windows is all well and good, a failed memcheck is not.

I am using parts that are fully compatible. As stated, the memory I checked runs perfectly well at 2133MHz on other systems, and I've tried two higher end motherboards from two major manufacturers. That is more than reasonable on my part.

I wrote for Personal Computer World for 9 years - I am more than competent at testing equipment and ensuring that I am buying compatible parts. I'm absolutely astonished at how difficult this is proving to be, when with other companies (e.g. Amazon, ebuyer, dabs, CCL, ocuk) I've never once had the slightest problem with a return made. It's even more surprising given the fact that I returned this just a couple of days beyond the DSR period, the only reason which was because I was trying to test everything properly before raising an RMA. Even if we cannot agree on this, I would have expected some good will towards a customer who has returned this only as a last resort.

[Mark@SCAN]

Hi,

I tried two sets of RAM certified at 2133MHz and both wouldn't post at all with my ASRock board. It was ok at 1866MHz. Both sets worked fine in my other PC at 2133MHz.

I thought it might be the board, so I tried the APU and the memory in an Asus board instead, and the exact same results - no post at all. Again, ok at 1866MHz.

ASRock support told me the problem was with the APU.

Today I've had an email to say no fault was found. Since I did a large amount of testing, two sets of RAM and two motherboards, I cannot agree there is no fault.

So originally you said it would not post @ 2133mhz (posts fine for us @ 2133mhz with no increase to memory voltage) but now we have to run memtest to confirm that it works even though the chip apparently will not post, how do you run memtest on a machine that wont post with 2133 memory installed and configured?

I'm not trying to undermine your technical ability but why should we be made to jump through hoops?

So if I get our testing staff to run memtest on the APU with the memory configured @ 2133 and if it fails we agree to refund the CPU and if it passes you agree to the return of the APU?

Were not being difficult, I just don't understand what you expect us to do with a used CPU that we have tested and believe not to be faulty when you're outside of the DSR period?

[teppic]

I thought I explained it clearly, but if not I'll explain again:

At 2133MHz at the correct voltage I could not post with either board or either set of RAM, let alone boot the system. The same RAM worked on two other systems at the correct voltage and speed.

By pushing up the voltage on the Patriot memory it would post at 2133MHz and boot into Windows, but memcheck returned memory errors. Resetting the BIOS, reseating the RAM, etc. still returned memory errors. Again, the RAM passed memcheck on a different system.

I am not asking you to jump through hoops, I am just explaining that my tests showed problems which your tests have not checked for. If using 2133MHz RAM (not underclocked 2400MHz memory etc.) with everything at stock settings it passes a full memcheck and runs stable in Windows, then I would accept it back, yes.

[Mark@SCAN]

That's my point, your APU with our board/memory posts fine at the rated settings for the memory i.e. 2133mhz 1.5v 11-11-11-30 which obviously conflicts with your reported fault.

I understand that it may not have posted at that speed in your board with your memory and I am not trying to disprove that, we have simply tested for the fault reported and got a different set of results.

I have asked the testing manager to test again this time with memtest and will report back with the findings when it's finished.

Regards

[Mark@SCAN]

teppic,

So in order to run memtest successfully you must test using the latest V5.00b6 as any older version does not support the IMC on the APU which would explain the errors at your end, unless you can confirm you were running the above version?

Memtest86+ V5.00b6 changelog
----------------------------

- Added support for up to 2 TB of RAM on X64 CPUs
- Added experimental SMT support up to 32 cores
- Added complete detection for memory controllers.
- Added Motherboard Manufacturer & Model reporting
- Added CPU temperature reporting
- Added enhanced Fail Safe Mode (Press F1 at startup)
- Added support for Intel "Sandy Bridge-E" CPUs
- Added support for Intel "Ivy Bridge" CPUs
- Added preliminary support for Intel "Haswell" CPUs
- Added preliminary support for Intel "Haswell-ULT" CPUs
- Added support for AMD "Kabini" (K16) CPUs
- Added support for AMD "Bulldozer" CPUs
- Added support for AMD "Trinity" CPUs
- Added support for AMD E-/C-/G-/Z- "Bobcat" CPUs
- Added support for Intel Atom "Pineview" CPUs
- Added support for Intel Atom "Cedar Trail" CPUs
- Added SPD detection on most AMD Chipsets
- Enforced Coreboot support
- Optimized run time for faster memory error detection
- Rewriten lots of memory timings detection code
- Corrected bugs, bugs and more bugs

Anyway it's done a pass at 2133 with our board/memory and your APU all at the memory's rated frequency's/timings/voltages no problem